Colnago C50 original or fake
Moderator: robbosmans
I would like to buy this bike. Can anyone tell if it has a real C50 frame or is it fake?
http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/2045954 ... agnolo.jpg
http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/2045954 ... agnolo.jpg
http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/2045954 ... agnolo.jpg
But I've never seen this paintjob before. I have seen one that looks like it ( http://www.palu-bikes.com/wp-content/up ... e-Fork.jpg )
http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/2045954 ... agnolo.jpg
http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/2045954 ... agnolo.jpg
http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/2045954 ... agnolo.jpg
But I've never seen this paintjob before. I have seen one that looks like it ( http://www.palu-bikes.com/wp-content/up ... e-Fork.jpg )
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Fake frames are usually monocoque carbon, not lugged as in Colnago's style. It's why you tend to see a lot more fake Specialized, Look, Cervelo, etc. than Colnago.
I've never seen that paint job. The one you link to was a standard and similar to the C50 I bought back in about 2005 (mine was yellow) but is quite different compared to the one you're considering buying.
A couple of things you might look at:
- What is the size of the seatpost? C40s, C50s and Extreme Cs came with 28.0 seatposts. The one on the bike you're consideringlooks big in the picture.
- C50s came with the Star fork. Every Star fork I've had (10 or so, eight around the house right now) said Star on it near the top. See the other picture you've linked to.
- I don't remember sloping C50s. You could probably check that by looking at C50 geometry charts that are on various links.
On the other hand, the HP chainstays are hard to duplicate and I've heard that there are lots of different painters of Colnagos.
A couple of things you might look at:
- What is the size of the seatpost? C40s, C50s and Extreme Cs came with 28.0 seatposts. The one on the bike you're consideringlooks big in the picture.
- C50s came with the Star fork. Every Star fork I've had (10 or so, eight around the house right now) said Star on it near the top. See the other picture you've linked to.
- I don't remember sloping C50s. You could probably check that by looking at C50 geometry charts that are on various links.
On the other hand, the HP chainstays are hard to duplicate and I've heard that there are lots of different painters of Colnagos.
Frame looks legit. Like c50jim says, the 28.0 seatpost is kind of rare size and all the C50's came with it. I've seen 27.2 seatposts in there with a shim, but if it's bigger than the 28.0 I'd want to know what they did to fit it in there. Wouldn't be too thrilled if they reamed the seattube to accommodate it.
The early C50 forks were the "Star Carbon" fork, the same as the later C40's. But then they changed to the "Carbon 75" fork which is a little more sculpted and more slender in the dropouts. And sloping definitely became a Colnago reality during the C50 era.
Also, the right chainstay looks a bit "squashed" at the open diamond area compared to the left one, which you can't see in the picture. But that is how it should be and done that way to accommodate the routing of the rear derailleur cable, otherwise the chainstay would interfere with the cable as it routed from under the BB to the rear derailleur cable stop.
So, I would definitely say the frame is legit, but ask about the seatpost.
As for the paint, I haven't seen that specific paint job either, but they have been known to do "one offs" (my EPQ is actually unique that way). And this could very well have been a stock unpainted frame shipped to Belgium, where I believe they did some painting as well outside of Italy. So maybe they varied it slightly, just cuz, or because a customer requested something slightly modified.
I have actually seen a fake EPS, which was lugged. But there were no alloy cups in the headset for the bearings to seat in, the bearings would just sit right in the carbon bevels within the frame, like you see a lot of today. Also, the EPS downtube has 3 ribs inside the tube for added strength running down it's length which are completely invisible from the outside, but when I stuck my finger up the headtube and in the downtube, they weren't there... it was just a plain round tube. And the miters of the tubes inside the lugs were awful. And who knows what kinds of epoxy/resins they used to glue it all together. So I guess there are a few fake lugged colnagos as well, but very rare, not like the molded frames.
The early C50 forks were the "Star Carbon" fork, the same as the later C40's. But then they changed to the "Carbon 75" fork which is a little more sculpted and more slender in the dropouts. And sloping definitely became a Colnago reality during the C50 era.
Also, the right chainstay looks a bit "squashed" at the open diamond area compared to the left one, which you can't see in the picture. But that is how it should be and done that way to accommodate the routing of the rear derailleur cable, otherwise the chainstay would interfere with the cable as it routed from under the BB to the rear derailleur cable stop.
So, I would definitely say the frame is legit, but ask about the seatpost.
As for the paint, I haven't seen that specific paint job either, but they have been known to do "one offs" (my EPQ is actually unique that way). And this could very well have been a stock unpainted frame shipped to Belgium, where I believe they did some painting as well outside of Italy. So maybe they varied it slightly, just cuz, or because a customer requested something slightly modified.
I have actually seen a fake EPS, which was lugged. But there were no alloy cups in the headset for the bearings to seat in, the bearings would just sit right in the carbon bevels within the frame, like you see a lot of today. Also, the EPS downtube has 3 ribs inside the tube for added strength running down it's length which are completely invisible from the outside, but when I stuck my finger up the headtube and in the downtube, they weren't there... it was just a plain round tube. And the miters of the tubes inside the lugs were awful. And who knows what kinds of epoxy/resins they used to glue it all together. So I guess there are a few fake lugged colnagos as well, but very rare, not like the molded frames.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Frame looks legit, the paintjob somehow doesn't.
Since the add is from Belgium I guess this might be a repainted Rabobank frameset. Seen loads of these and some of them where (like loads of ex pro stuff) really abused and had to be repainted to obtain any resale value.
Have to say I would stay away from a frame with such a history since the only C50 frameset with loosening joints where these specific frames.
Looked at the add and the bike looks like someones diy project (rarely seen a c50 build up with centaur). With 2k in Euro's the orice is too high for a ex pro frame, would only buy this if the seller could show me a genuine purchase bill.
Since the add is from Belgium I guess this might be a repainted Rabobank frameset. Seen loads of these and some of them where (like loads of ex pro stuff) really abused and had to be repainted to obtain any resale value.
Have to say I would stay away from a frame with such a history since the only C50 frameset with loosening joints where these specific frames.
Looked at the add and the bike looks like someones diy project (rarely seen a c50 build up with centaur). With 2k in Euro's the orice is too high for a ex pro frame, would only buy this if the seller could show me a genuine purchase bill.
I agree with other guys; legit frame which has been repainted.
Nothing wrong with that as long as you like it.
Personally I would prefer original paint.
Nothing wrong with that as long as you like it.
Personally I would prefer original paint.
I can't comment on the frame without closer inspection, however, as stated above, it's difficult and expensive to try to fake the split chainstays and lugged frame shape of the C50.
None of the C50's uses the strong sloping (italics) COLNAGO lettering.
Only the C50's built after the introduction of the Extreme frames use the COLNAGO lettering with the partial clover leaf icon and the lettering on the seat tube went from a cascading vertical font to a linear font following the tube direction.
The paint job on this frame is an attempt perhaps to copy one of the Colnago WX colour schemes?
None of the C50's uses the strong sloping (italics) COLNAGO lettering.
Only the C50's built after the introduction of the Extreme frames use the COLNAGO lettering with the partial clover leaf icon and the lettering on the seat tube went from a cascading vertical font to a linear font following the tube direction.
The paint job on this frame is an attempt perhaps to copy one of the Colnago WX colour schemes?
So it could be a repaired and repainted frame then? Is there any way I can tell?
That seatpost is only available in 27.2 and 31.6 (from Deda website). So it's probably a 27.2 + shim?
Seller says the frame was ridden by the customers son for 800kms. He traded it in for a bigger size because the son quit riding and the father had the parts built over to the bigger size frame to ride himself. Seller built the son's frame back up with Centaur group.
That seatpost is only available in 27.2 and 31.6 (from Deda website). So it's probably a 27.2 + shim?
Seller says the frame was ridden by the customers son for 800kms. He traded it in for a bigger size because the son quit riding and the father had the parts built over to the bigger size frame to ride himself. Seller built the son's frame back up with Centaur group.
What about getting the serial number and contacting Colnago? I've seen people post here that Colnago will give you some basic information about the frame and tell you the original color scheme.
It sounds like you're you've got all the information you're going to get it from the seller. And it seems like it was a repaint so price your offer accordingly.
It sounds like you're you've got all the information you're going to get it from the seller. And it seems like it was a repaint so price your offer accordingly.
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Something else to consider, if it's from Belgium, the Benlux importer used to get frames in naked and do the painting in house. So, you could get literally ANY colnago paint scheme current or past on your bike. They could accommodate custom work as well.
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Another question for the C59 owners; real?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colnago-C59-Firelflies-for-Leuka-19-039-039-Bicycle-Frame-and-Fork-/232030560188?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colnago-C59-Firelflies-for-Leuka-19-039-039-Bicycle-Frame-and-Fork-/232030560188?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
ghisallo2003 wrote:Another question for the C59 owners; real?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colnago-C59-Firelflies-for-Leuka-19-039-039-Bicycle-Frame-and-Fork-/232030560188?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
Hard to tell, but if pushed, I'd say fake as there is serial number on the inside of the left hand rear dropout.
Paul.
If the grand tours are like classical music, kermesse racing is punkrock, Belgian style.
Colnago C50, Campag SR11
Colnago C50, Campag SR11
The head tube is often a giveaway. It looks too hourglass and the bottom looks larger than the top. A C59 has the same bearings top/bottom. Plus, as previously said, no serial number is pictured where it should be.
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