Zipp FC 303 vs Mavic Cosmic carbone ultimate
Moderator: robbosmans
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Hi everyone,
Im a first time on here and I wanted some advice off you guys. Im looking to buy some new wheels for my Focus evo cayo 2015 bike but really stuck on what to buy between the mavic or the zipp fc I live in hertfordshire and ride all round the county and essex aswell. The questions that I really want to ask is what ones are more durable and what are better in crosswinds?
Cheers
Jack
Im a first time on here and I wanted some advice off you guys. Im looking to buy some new wheels for my Focus evo cayo 2015 bike but really stuck on what to buy between the mavic or the zipp fc I live in hertfordshire and ride all round the county and essex aswell. The questions that I really want to ask is what ones are more durable and what are better in crosswinds?
Cheers
Jack
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- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6293
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
Sorry for introducing something to you that you don't ask, but anyway, for your information i still do.
I rode CCU and still have them, the latest version. I bought Ax Lightness Stream 38 with Tune Mig45/Mag150.
Stream 38 are 26mm wide and 38mm deep. I use them with Schwalbe The One 24mm and CCU are dressed with The One 22mm.
I rode CCU with Vittoria CX and SR before and before that Continental Comp 22mm.
I can say this. Stream ride much more plush and soft, they are more stabile and less affected by side winds and crosswinds.
This is not to say CCU are really much affected by crosswinds.
When i change wheels to CCU, i find it is harsh and you feel alot more differences of how your tarmac is good or bad.
They almost feel nervous by compairson. None of the wheels are really making you faster or slower.
If you want a more comfortable feel Stream 38 is your given wheelset.
I would say i really like these wheels and find no downside using them.
I would guess Zipp 303 is closer to Stream 38 but weight is alot more.
If you want the most stiff version of Stream you go for DT Swiss hubs.
If you want the more reliable light hub you go for Tune.
If you want the lighter hub you go for Extralite, but more maintenance and more has reported they lack degree of stiffness.
You can also figure if you rather would look into Tunes all new Schwartzbrenner 38 which now come with 25mm wide rims and Tune Mig70/Mag170.
This would be rather close to Zipp 303 but lighter and cheaper than Ax wheels.
I would seriously take any of Tune or Ax over Mavic.
I repeat, this is because i guess Tune wheels are close to Ax and the Ax wheel feels nicer to ride than CCU.
I rode CCU and still have them, the latest version. I bought Ax Lightness Stream 38 with Tune Mig45/Mag150.
Stream 38 are 26mm wide and 38mm deep. I use them with Schwalbe The One 24mm and CCU are dressed with The One 22mm.
I rode CCU with Vittoria CX and SR before and before that Continental Comp 22mm.
I can say this. Stream ride much more plush and soft, they are more stabile and less affected by side winds and crosswinds.
This is not to say CCU are really much affected by crosswinds.
When i change wheels to CCU, i find it is harsh and you feel alot more differences of how your tarmac is good or bad.
They almost feel nervous by compairson. None of the wheels are really making you faster or slower.
If you want a more comfortable feel Stream 38 is your given wheelset.
I would say i really like these wheels and find no downside using them.
I would guess Zipp 303 is closer to Stream 38 but weight is alot more.
If you want the most stiff version of Stream you go for DT Swiss hubs.
If you want the more reliable light hub you go for Tune.
If you want the lighter hub you go for Extralite, but more maintenance and more has reported they lack degree of stiffness.
You can also figure if you rather would look into Tunes all new Schwartzbrenner 38 which now come with 25mm wide rims and Tune Mig70/Mag170.
This would be rather close to Zipp 303 but lighter and cheaper than Ax wheels.
I would seriously take any of Tune or Ax over Mavic.
I repeat, this is because i guess Tune wheels are close to Ax and the Ax wheel feels nicer to ride than CCU.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Zipp FC 303 are going to be more durable and better in crosswinds, but you will have way more fun and better performance with the Mavic CC Ultimates!!!
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6293
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
I would take Stream over those as those are lighter. My Tune set was around 1000 grams.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
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- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm
Agree with sawyer on the 303FC's over the Mavics, but would go Bora 50's on Campag or Fulcrum Racing Speeds on Shimano.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Question Tub's or Clincher? As a 202, 404 and 808 in clincher owner, the 303 in clincher format only seems to work for the lightest people that can't handle a 404, the weight savings is only, what a 100g. If I still was a sew up guy, I would have the 303's over the 202's.
I own a pair of 303 tubs and rode the mavic ccu for about a week -- borrowed a friends.
303 ride smoother. "Feels" better in a cross wind than the ccu but hard to do an real comparison because of different conditions etc. I guess 303 is more aerodynamic but I don't have a wind tunnel
The ccu has an undeniably coolness factor. IMHO it looks better with the carbon spokes.
You didn't mention price. I did some quick googling and 303 tubs can be had for roughly 500 usd less (2015 model not the 2016 which are a little heavier). That price difference would seal the deal for me
All that said the next gen ccu -- no specific date, but spy shots floating around. Next gen should be very interesting.
303 ride smoother. "Feels" better in a cross wind than the ccu but hard to do an real comparison because of different conditions etc. I guess 303 is more aerodynamic but I don't have a wind tunnel
The ccu has an undeniably coolness factor. IMHO it looks better with the carbon spokes.
You didn't mention price. I did some quick googling and 303 tubs can be had for roughly 500 usd less (2015 model not the 2016 which are a little heavier). That price difference would seal the deal for me
All that said the next gen ccu -- no specific date, but spy shots floating around. Next gen should be very interesting.
Specialized Tarmac Sworks SL6, Moots Compact, Carl Strong Titanium
CCU for me. Much lighter, much stiffer, looks better.
What are your guys' thoughts on sticking on the "special service course" decals onto the CCUs?
Like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAVIC-COSMIC-CA ... SwnDxUfZo~
Like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAVIC-COSMIC-CA ... SwnDxUfZo~
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6293
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
New CCU will not arrive during 2016. You'd atleast have to wait for 2017 (these models can appear in the end of 2016 though!)
This is the response i got from Mavic when i asked. Yes, you should know CCU is very stiff and not at all made as a wheelset for comfort.
It is not really ideal offsetting the aero gains using a wider tire. If you would like a tire over 23mm and have some aero gains, you should look at a wheelset with wider
rims. Honestly, check the tubular version of Easton Aero 55 which honestly is fast, it is very comfortable and it has the wide rim for stability and aero.
I have them myself and i like them really really much. I think it's an awesome wheelset!
I sold my own 2014 CCU to get the Aero 55. Absolutely no regrets. You would not buy 2014-2015 Zipps anyway. Those both have reported problems with
hubs that is why Zipp completely revised the hubs for the 2016 versions.
This is the response i got from Mavic when i asked. Yes, you should know CCU is very stiff and not at all made as a wheelset for comfort.
It is not really ideal offsetting the aero gains using a wider tire. If you would like a tire over 23mm and have some aero gains, you should look at a wheelset with wider
rims. Honestly, check the tubular version of Easton Aero 55 which honestly is fast, it is very comfortable and it has the wide rim for stability and aero.
I have them myself and i like them really really much. I think it's an awesome wheelset!
I sold my own 2014 CCU to get the Aero 55. Absolutely no regrets. You would not buy 2014-2015 Zipps anyway. Those both have reported problems with
hubs that is why Zipp completely revised the hubs for the 2016 versions.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
I never tried the 303s as they were only slightly lighter than 404 so I concluded that the aerodynamic benefits of the deeper wheel would be greater than the weight savings (in spite of having some crazy hills around here).
When I test rode the 404s (2012), they were very smooth, even on poorly maintained concrete roads. But they were very flexy, causing brake rub. I have no data, but would be surprised if they were less aerodynamic than CCUs, but not by enough to make a real world difference.
The CCUs were very different. Everyone says they feel nervous and harsh. In comparison to the zipps this is very true, but I wasn't buying comfy wheels, I wanted performance, which the CCUs have in spades. To me 'nervous' and 'harsh' translated to lightning fast, accurate steering and plenty of feedback. This gives me more options when choosing lines down a technical descent, dodging potholes, bunnyhopping cats eyes and cornering at speed. Add to that the immense stiffness meaning they rocket up hills and spin up very quickly.
After three years they haven't missed a beat, the only maintenance required has been adjusting / tightening the freehub. I have now worn through the brake track on the front wheel and it is time to replace it. I'm going with the AX Lightness P38T. It's not that I don't like the Mavic, but if I'm going to spend that much money, I want to feel like I've got something new!
Back to the original question, IMHO the zipps are good for flat, straight line riding (time trials etc.) But CCUs are better for climbing, sprinting and maneuvering.
When I test rode the 404s (2012), they were very smooth, even on poorly maintained concrete roads. But they were very flexy, causing brake rub. I have no data, but would be surprised if they were less aerodynamic than CCUs, but not by enough to make a real world difference.
The CCUs were very different. Everyone says they feel nervous and harsh. In comparison to the zipps this is very true, but I wasn't buying comfy wheels, I wanted performance, which the CCUs have in spades. To me 'nervous' and 'harsh' translated to lightning fast, accurate steering and plenty of feedback. This gives me more options when choosing lines down a technical descent, dodging potholes, bunnyhopping cats eyes and cornering at speed. Add to that the immense stiffness meaning they rocket up hills and spin up very quickly.
After three years they haven't missed a beat, the only maintenance required has been adjusting / tightening the freehub. I have now worn through the brake track on the front wheel and it is time to replace it. I'm going with the AX Lightness P38T. It's not that I don't like the Mavic, but if I'm going to spend that much money, I want to feel like I've got something new!
Back to the original question, IMHO the zipps are good for flat, straight line riding (time trials etc.) But CCUs are better for climbing, sprinting and maneuvering.
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6293
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
The Stream 38 is also good for those things. But it's a much friendlier wheelset. It's more stable and calm.
It won't feel as snappy as CCU i think!
Actually i don't know if Stream 38 is a sprint wheel. I don't think aero wheels are either. I don't think i can compare CCU to a likeness of Stream 38 or vice versa.
It has another level of comfort which you will feel right away.
Would be nice to hear/ read what you think of them once you have them.
What setup, Tune or Extralite... or do you go for DT Swiss hubs?
I will have a set of No tubes Avion Pro Disc. But ofcourse for another kind of bike so i can't compare (different frames/ bikes).
It won't feel as snappy as CCU i think!
Actually i don't know if Stream 38 is a sprint wheel. I don't think aero wheels are either. I don't think i can compare CCU to a likeness of Stream 38 or vice versa.
It has another level of comfort which you will feel right away.
Would be nice to hear/ read what you think of them once you have them.
What setup, Tune or Extralite... or do you go for DT Swiss hubs?
I will have a set of No tubes Avion Pro Disc. But ofcourse for another kind of bike so i can't compare (different frames/ bikes).
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
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