How much does a top end road bike really cost?
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I think the better question is how much of your road bike's cost is marketing?
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XCProMD wrote:Exactly. Ferrari makes 7000 cars a year. Some of the top end bikes don't sell 7000 units a year.
It was easier to justify top end bikes' cost, because they were hand made in Italy (or Germany or France). But now, nearly all are made overseas.
Their volume are low because the farmes are too expensive for the mass market. They can't reduce the cost since they would immediately become "yet another Asian made bike". So, I think brand names are doing what they should. They find the seat spot and sell bikes at what the buys are willing to pay.
Consequently, I stopped buying mass produced frames at that price. Not because they are made in Asia, but because they are mass produced and should not cost that much.
I share your view, 2old4this. For me now it's Sarto, Scapin, BCB, Rolo, Parlee, Crumpton et al.
At the end of the day the cost is not that different from the Asian made bike and it's YOUR bike.
To me fit is first and foremost. I work for the automotive industry and I have seen the aerodynamics engineers laughing to death when I have showed them some papers and videos about bicycle aerodynamics.
At the end of the day the cost is not that different from the Asian made bike and it's YOUR bike.
To me fit is first and foremost. I work for the automotive industry and I have seen the aerodynamics engineers laughing to death when I have showed them some papers and videos about bicycle aerodynamics.
It is a mixture of a lot of different things: high end carbon high fibers believe it or not are actually rather expensive, and as these frames get more technical the design and labor that is required is also more expensive(like Jaguar teaming up with Pina). Another thing to think about is that there is an overhead for the design and production of these bikes, so if there are not too many people in the market the price for fewer items is definitely going to be more expensive. Lastly, there is a portion of the price that goes into the marketing of these bikes.
Guys, your completely missing the psychology of what it is to create a brand and a tribe. Its just the same as people paying $300 for Rapha, when something half price will probably do same thing. You pay for prestige, you pay because at some level - for most consumers that are their target market (likely not y'all), it feels good to pay $8k for something knowing that not everyone can get it. You just shelled out $8k (or whatever) and joined a tribe of people that are like minded, and/or have like means. You get something very different when you shell out $3k. A big part of this is performance - you pay for hopefully something nicer.. but everyone knows that performance upgrades at this price are marginal. You're really paying for design, packaging, the experience of the whole thing. You can't compare a super "bicycle" at $10k to a nice motorbike. You've got compare "super bicycle" with "super bike" or "super car".. Actual dollars don't matter here, it's relative. Pinarello F8 is akin to Porsche turbo.. not a $8k Ducati. For the people who shell out this kind of money for a bike (i'm one of them), it's only partly about materials.. yeah, I expect them to be top-notch - but it's also partly for buying into something larger and intangible.
You also have to consider, if you dropped the price of Sram RED to match up with whatever shock boots someone was referring.. So you drop the price of top end lines to a few hundred dollars.. Then what about the 105, or Tiagra. Should they just give those away? It would be much less appealing to me mentally if it was $100 for a tiagra derailleur, and $120 for a Dura Ace. First of all, nobody in their right mind would buy Tiagra. Second, when I spend a lot of money, I want to feel like i'm really getting something. If it's only a marginal price difference between lowest end and highest end, it doesn't make me feel good about my purchase.
It's all about emotions guys.. your analyzing it way too much. A lot less about materials. Patek is stunning, and also evokes an emotion. Buying a Patek is not a logical thing to do -- thing tells time as good as a $20 piece from the drug store! It's an emotional purchase.. The brand, quality, materials - it's all in service of evoking an emotion strong enough to part you with your $100k+ for a watch.
You also have to consider, if you dropped the price of Sram RED to match up with whatever shock boots someone was referring.. So you drop the price of top end lines to a few hundred dollars.. Then what about the 105, or Tiagra. Should they just give those away? It would be much less appealing to me mentally if it was $100 for a tiagra derailleur, and $120 for a Dura Ace. First of all, nobody in their right mind would buy Tiagra. Second, when I spend a lot of money, I want to feel like i'm really getting something. If it's only a marginal price difference between lowest end and highest end, it doesn't make me feel good about my purchase.
It's all about emotions guys.. your analyzing it way too much. A lot less about materials. Patek is stunning, and also evokes an emotion. Buying a Patek is not a logical thing to do -- thing tells time as good as a $20 piece from the drug store! It's an emotional purchase.. The brand, quality, materials - it's all in service of evoking an emotion strong enough to part you with your $100k+ for a watch.
Whether we like it or not, this ^^^
VTBike wrote:It's all about emotions guys.. your analyzing it way too much. A lot less about materials. Patek is stunning, and also evokes an emotion. Buying a Patek is not a logical thing to do -- thing tells time as good as a $20 piece from the drug store! It's an emotional purchase.. The brand, quality, materials - it's all in service of evoking an emotion strong enough to part you with your $100k+ for a watch.
I agree it is all about emotions. For me, I just can't justify paying the same amount of money to Pinarello (or Wilier or whatever brand you pick) instead of buying a Baum, or Parlee, or Calfe (well may be not Calfe, but you got my point.) Everybody has the mass produced ones (and believe me, we have a good number of those in California BayArea). I have one that is made for me. Can't beat the feeling
PS. I hope I didn't sound too offensive. Please forgive this old-fart, I am 2old4this.
Where a frame is made, how exactly it is made and who makes it is not just 'emotional'. That's overly simplistic to believe.
There are many serious issues related to economy, models of growth, labour, trade, ecology etc. etc. involved. All these issues can add to the emotional value of the product but their source is very material while at the same time reflecting to the relations between company owners, managers, engineers, workers, customers, etc.
So thinking that a product mass made in a chinese factory is 'the same' to a handmade in the EU or US product, just cheaper and less glamorous, is simply wrong.
That does not mean that cheap labour shoul be be banned (see: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... labor.html) but that's another discussion.
There are many serious issues related to economy, models of growth, labour, trade, ecology etc. etc. involved. All these issues can add to the emotional value of the product but their source is very material while at the same time reflecting to the relations between company owners, managers, engineers, workers, customers, etc.
So thinking that a product mass made in a chinese factory is 'the same' to a handmade in the EU or US product, just cheaper and less glamorous, is simply wrong.
That does not mean that cheap labour shoul be be banned (see: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... labor.html) but that's another discussion.
I just like the factory stuff the pros ride. It has been that way since I was racing bmx at age 8. Factory pro, factory kits, you know you got the tools now focus on the race. The cool thing was to have whatever Greg Hill had. Well this was my case but it's influence of older guys coming up, state champs were my neighbors, sponsored, got me stuff and eventually got me hooked up with a shop. Even if a guy was getting flowed frames from some unknown company it was cooler than buying all this blingy crap to pose with. Not everyone is the same wanting boutique custom stuff. But cheers to all and whatever your ideas of "top end" is. I like the proven tools, I guess the big brands that win races.
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+1 tinozee on pro builds. have Record + new Boras on latest bike and like the no nonsense consistency of brand and parts of that kind of approach
Would be really interesting to know the margins manufacturers have on their top end frames/bikes, but it seems we don't have that data. Interesting that Pinarello (reportedly paying a wad to sponsor Sky) charge about double what Canyon charge for their top end frameset ... presumably Canyon also pay something to sponsor two pro teams?
Would be really interesting to know the margins manufacturers have on their top end frames/bikes, but it seems we don't have that data. Interesting that Pinarello (reportedly paying a wad to sponsor Sky) charge about double what Canyon charge for their top end frameset ... presumably Canyon also pay something to sponsor two pro teams?
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
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