Campagnolo Front Derailleur Issue

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alorast
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by alorast

Hello, I am building up a new frame with Campy Chorus (11sp not 2015 model).

The bike is a cannondale supersix evo, full chorus, 12-27 cassette, 53-39 chain rings, campy BB adapter, campy wheels.

I am using the UT-FD020 tool to align the front derailleur. When adjusting the low limit screw (chain in 39x27 gear) it is impossible to prevent chain rub, the derailleur will not move far/low enough to allow a small gap, even when the screw is removed from the derailleur and no cable tension. All other parts are installed and work flawlessly.

What could be the issue here? Has anyone had a problem like this before?

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Valbrona
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by Valbrona

Sorted it yet?

Campag do not label their limit screws 'H' and 'L'. It is easy to pick the wrong one if you have never done this before.

mike
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by mike

try hand adjusting the angle of the front derailleur. sometimes it looks lined up but a very minor angle change can make the difference.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Is the cable attached to the dérailleur while you're adjusting? If so, is it too tight preventing the dérailleur from moving to the stop?
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graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

If I understand you / have read properly, you don't have the FD cable attached and the low limit screw is completely removed?

Taking it for granted that it is the low limit screw you have removed ... :-D

If that's the case, is it the spring on the back of the FD touching the seat tube that is limiting the movement?

Is it a Campag rear wheel or a third party? It's *just about* possible that on a short rear triangle, the bottom sprocket can sit too close to the centre-line of the frame (or, if you will, the 6th sprocket is less than 43.5 mm from the centre-line of the frame), so that the angle created between the chainring and the biggest sprocket on the cassette is too obtuse for the FD to cope with ... can't say we have ever seen it but it's a theoretical possibility. The cassette would have to be quite a long way out of place, though.

More probable:

What's the attachment method on the FD?

If it's on a band, is a Campag band or a third party?

If the band places the attachment of the FD too far "forward" it's theoretically possible for the spring on the back of the FD to contact the seat tube, so not permitting the FD to go far enough inboard - we have seen this on occasion.

The same problem *can* occur with a braze-on style FD mounting if it's incorrectly placed relative to the centre-line of the tube.

Apart from that, if you can post an image or two it'd be handy - not a problem we have had reported with 2015 11s doubles yet (can be an issue with Athena triple on some 35.0 mm seat tubes, we know).
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stormur
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by stormur

graeme_f_k wrote:The same problem *can* occur with a braze-on style FD mounting if it's incorrectly placed relative to the centre-line of the tube.


I had same problem while ago - solved changing Chorus for Sram... Anyway, I started observe this "phenomenon" and it seems more and more frame manufacturers design braze about 5-7mm front to the center line of seat tube, and angle of it is very "Campagnolo unfriendly" as well ( more steep ).

That cause mentioned by OP issues with Campy FD.

From my observations it hapens with frame manufacturers which are "close to Shimano" - like Giant, BH, BMC ...

I asked tech dep of one of them "are your frames Campagnolo compatible" ? Answer was : did you see on our site ANY bike equipped with Campagnolo ;) ? "... .
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graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

stormur wrote:
graeme_f_k wrote:The same problem *can* occur with a braze-on style FD mounting if it's incorrectly placed relative to the centre-line of the tube.


I had same problem while ago - solved changing Chorus for Sram... Anyway, I started observe this "phenomenon" and it seems more and more frame manufacturers design braze about 5-7mm front to the center line of seat tube, and angle of it is very "Campagnolo unfriendly" as well ( more steep ).

That cause mentioned by OP issues with Campy FD.

From my observations it hapens with frame manufacturers which are "close to Shimano" - like Giant, BH, BMC ...

I asked tech dep of one of them "are your frames Campagnolo compatible" ? Answer was : did you see on our site ANY bike equipped with Campagnolo ;) ? "... .


Yep - it works better for Shimano (and SRAM who of course follow them) to place the FD mount further forwards - Campag only needs 3 - 3.5 mm ahead of the centre-line of the notional seat tube (I say "notional" because seat tubes are so often now sculptured as Kam-tails or other such shapes & in some cases no longer follow anything like a direct line from centre BB to centre saddle).

The fix is to block the FD back - on most FD mounts the mounting bolt is just about long enough to allow this.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@graeme_F_K: The "fix is to block the dérailleur back"? By that do you mean to place a shim between the front dérailleur and the brazeon tab? If so, where would you get such shims with the correct curvature on both sides?
This sounds like a potential big problem for Campy. It seems to me that if Shimano can dictate to frame manufacturers where exactly they need the brazeon tab on frames for their front dérailleur to work best, then Campy had better make sure their dérailleurs work with that same spec. The simple reality is that Shimano dwarfs Campagnolo as far as having any influence on manufacturers' frame designs to accommodate the group sets being developed. They can't afford to ignore that reality.
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stormur
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by stormur

Calnago is right : however exist shims to move backward FD and change angle ( due to Q rings shifting issues ) , but such a shim which would move FD outward from seat tube do not exist.

Next issue is braze height : on some frames is at the limit for 53 ring and Campagnolo FD, on some braze has to be milled to fit... .

Campa decide to have own standard for FD, but life (Shimano) will verify them painfully- ALL manufacturers can ignore Campagnolo specs for frame design, and NO ONE can ignore Shimano.

I like Campagnolo. Hate Sram levers shape, really hate Sram hoods shape. But with this I can live, without FD I can't... ;) , so choice was obvious . And no, I will not install 11 spd Shimano in my bike ;).
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
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I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

AJS914
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by AJS914

If so, where would you get such shims with the correct curvature on both sides?


I'd get a stainless washer or two from the hardware store and bend them into shape. That should be pretty easy.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

Simple washers wouldn't exactly provide the same support as a proper shim running along the entire length of the contact surface. And with the new long arm mechanical derailleurs and the electronic derailleurs, you want as much support as possible since the force applied here is quite a bit greater.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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