Fitting and removing Campagnolo PF 30 BB cups from Ti frame

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cmcdonnell
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm

by cmcdonnell

Has anyone done this? I pressed the Super Record cups into my Litespeed T1 frame last night, they were very stiff but went in ok once aligned. I used some anti seize compound as I always have done with Ti and am now worried I should have uses some sort of loctite compound. The instruction supplied with the groupset were very vague (campy's instructions used to be so much more specific). Looking at the cups I cannot see how I would remove them if I needed to add a loctite compound and the only mention on the instructions is use a campy pro shop...

Also the crank installation does not mention greasing the central bolt or the bearings (they are the CULT ones), should I?

Finding the PF stuff tricky as every other bike I have built (and there have been a few) have used threaded BB's. I've always greased everything on my Ti framse.
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Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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AJS914
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by AJS914

On a Ti frame, anti-seize sounds appropriate. Campy says to use Loctite 603 or 609. I think I'd only redo it if you have some creaking. On a Ti frame you can redo it anytime.

Check out the guides from Campy's site (the first two pdf links):

https://www.google.com/search?q=campagn ... 8&oe=utf-8

For the cental fixing bolt, campy says to use Loctite 222.

I've always put some extra grease in the cups, on the bearings, and on the spindle to prevent rust, corrosion, or water intrusion.

Campy says that for super record you are to lubricate the ceramic bearings with "specific bearing oil".

hornedfrog
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm

by hornedfrog

cmcdonnell wrote:...Looking at the cups I cannot see how I would remove them if I needed to add a loctite compound and the only mention on the instructions is use a campy pro shop...


This is one of my many gripes with PF systems. Basically you have to use one of these http://www.parktool.com/product/pressfi ... t-bbt-90-3. You work it through one side of the bb, the expanded sections contact the interior surface of the opposite BB cup, and then you whack on the end of it with a hammer to push out the cup, and then repeat for the opposite side. When I worked in a shop, that was the number one thing that made me cringe; having a customer sit there with a ~$5000 frame in the stand and basically banging on his bike with a hammer to get the cups out.

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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

If those are really PF30 (as opposed to BB30), Campy cups, then be prepared for problems. They have a pretty bad reputation, perhaps because the design intent with PF30 was to use Delrin adapters, to accommodate PF30 tolerance.

Try it for a while and see how they go. If you run in to problems, Praxis has the solution, with a Campy cup BB for PF30 frames.
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Valbrona
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by Valbrona

The Park RT-1 headcup remover is used for removing your cups.

I would ordinarily not use any substance in the case of press-fit cups, whether BB or headtube. However, in the case of a titanium frame and aluminium cups I would opt to use a light sprayable anti-seize compound, and not a grease-based anti-seize compound like you would use on threaded assemblies.

teleguy57
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:29 am

by teleguy57

I know you're asking about installing the Campy OEM cups, but the best Campy PF30 solution I've found is the Praxis adapter. I tried the Campy OEM cups and the Parlee cups, and both creaked in my ti frame.

The install is straightforward, and the threaded adapter with the collect installs in the bb precisely and securely.

hornedfrog
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm

by hornedfrog

Valbrona wrote:The Park RT-1 headcup remover is used for removing your cups...


Yes, thank you. I linked the wrong tool, been a long day.

And just to back the couple posts above, yes, the Praxis solution is the best option.

cmcdonnell
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm

by cmcdonnell

The Praxis BB does look a better design and I lithe the fact it's threaded. I can only see one Campy BB on their site and not if they do different sizes as I'm using the PF30 68x46 rather than the BB30 68x42 so I can't see how one BB can fit both?

On another note, Litespeed confirmed that an anti-seize compound is appropriate in this case and not to use loctite which was a relief.

I suppose I'll leave in the Campy cups for now as they are pressed and see what happens, if they creak I'll have to purchase an RT-1.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

The Praxis BB is the same basic part, supplied with an expanding sleeve to take up the difference to PF30.

There is lots of info and instructional videos on their site.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

em3
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by em3

Do it right the first time and use Loctite 609 out of the gate..... why wait for your cups to start creaking (they will start creaking if you don't use Loctite!!!). There is a reason most manufacturers are now recommending Loctite 609...it is safe and it seems to be the only guarantee against any cup creep that yields the dreaded press fit creak. Most are concerned that Loctite 609 is permanent, it is not....apply a little heat with a hair dryer and simply punch the cups out, very easy and safe.

The Praxis and BBInfinite solutions are after market solutions for those who have buggered their frame (specifically carbon frame), riding bike with loose cups (i.e. improper install w/out Loctite) and grinding material from their BB shells, thus decreasing the chances of any cups ever fitting in the shell, even with Loctite. These after market solutions may also solve problems with frames that are shipped with uneven BB faces, but those cases are a manufacturers defect and a replacement frame is warranted. EM3
______________

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

em3 wrote:Do it right the first time and use Loctite 609 out of the gate..... why wait for your cups to start creaking (they will start creaking if you don't use Loctite!!!). There is a reason most manufacturers are now recommending Loctite 609...it is safe and it seems to be the only guarantee against any cup creep that yields the dreaded press fit creak. Most are concerned that Loctite 609 is permanent, it is not....apply a little heat with a hair dryer and simply punch the cups out, very easy and safe.

The Praxis and BBInfinite solutions are after market solutions for those who have buggered their frame (specifically carbon frame), riding bike with loose cups (i.e. improper install w/out Loctite) and grinding material from their BB shells, thus decreasing the chances of any cups ever fitting in the shell, even with Loctite. These after market solutions may also solve problems with frames that are shipped with uneven BB faces, but those cases are a manufacturers defect and a replacement frame is warranted. EM3

Hi em3, I had considered that but I emailed Litespeeds and they said not to use loctite only anti-seize as titanium. Surely I should follow their recommendations?
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I've thought about that as well with titanium bottom brackets. I might be a little worried about galling in the absence of an antiseize compound. Also, titanium being an inactive metal would also require the primer first if using Loctite 609. I've tried it without primer before and the results were less than satisfactory. Same as on Carbon frames. Use the primer with Loctite 609.
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