Mechanical groupsets at it's pinnacle, ... or?

[Powerful Pete]

I think if you got a new road bike with full DA 9000 2-5 years from now you would be the guy with a very nice bike that does everything necessary for someone who does not make his living from cycling (if I can assume that). With more money in his pocket for traveling to fabulous cycling locales and or purchasing other bits (like fancy wheelsets, for example), if we want to keep the thread on our collective consumption orientation.

I still ride a 2008 Cervelo R3 (the white one) with a hodgepodge of Campagnolo 10v and, while I get the urge to upgrade to 11v every so often, I can't justify it for financial reasons (ended up with N+1 on a completely different bike). I get dropped by a lot of people and very occasionally drop someone else, and it my bike is in no way holding me back.

Having said all this, there is no denying that Campagnolo 11v is a better group, and that EPS is even better - rode with a guy with a Colnago and full SR EPS this evening, and would be lying if I did not admit that bike gave me butterflies.

And my N+1 is more of a gravel rider/hydro disc equipped ride that is perfect for 90% of the riding/commuting that I do year round - and there the innovations really shine.

Don't know where I am going with this beyond trying to point out that I am not a complete Luddite when it comes to equipment...

[MikeDee]

I think the progression is more gears/speeds, lighter weight, better ergonomics... As for shifting precision and durability, that already peaked out with 7 and 8 speeds.

What does electric shifting offer other than making it easier on the hands and wrists to change gears?

[dmulligan]

Thanks for nothing! This thread isn't helping me one bit make a pricey decision between DA 9000 and Di2 9070.

http://redkiteprayer.com/2015/07/dura-ace-di2-a-deeper-look/



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[beanbiken]

I don't know, I just don't want electronics on my bike as a matter of principle.

Still, the idea of having to charge my bike for it to be able to perform a basic function seems somehow wrong to me? I'm sticking with mechanical for now.

I felt exactly the same. A bike is a mechanical device and should remain that way. When DA 9070 became lighter than DA 9000 I wilted and changed over to 9070, do I like it............ damn sure I do with the only issues being the operator. That all being said I reckon my next build will be with Campy mechanical.......

Steve

[Johnny Rad]

http://redkiteprayer.com/2015/07/dura-ace-di2-a-deeper-look/

"Argh!" said my pocketbook.

[Multebear]

I don't know, I just don't want electronics on my bike as a matter of principle.

Still, the idea of having to charge my bike for it to be able to perform a basic function seems somehow wrong to me? I'm sticking with mechanical for now.

I felt exactly the same. A bike is a mechanical device and should remain that way. When DA 9070 became lighter than DA 9000 I wilted and changed over to 9070, do I like it............ damn sure I do with the only issues being the operator. That all being said I reckon my next build will be with Campy mechanical.......

Steve

That's exactly how I felt before Di2. It's really unnecessary. But now, I don't want to go back.

If one doesn't have the money in the pocket to pay that extra for di2, then definitely don't do it. Stay with the mechanical Dura Ace. Di2 isn't worth the extra amount of money. It doesn't make you go faster. But it sure is nice, though.

[fromtrektocolnago]

Electronic is a toy,not even close to necessary for a successful and enjoyable ride. If you like the shiny toy and it motivates you to go out and ride more then nothing wrong. Where mechanical and electronic share features both will get benefit from R&D but Shimanos will most likely be putting more of their dollars into electronic. Mechanical will get supported for years as the base is still quite substantial. Interesting question about whether we'll see a pullback in offerings at the low or high end. I suspect more low end bikes will begin to show up with electronic gearing in the future, so you may not see a Shimano Sora and Tiagra at the low end where profit margins are lower. I think there's some room for improvement on mechanical such as more integration with disc and hopefully Shimano fixes the issue with rear derailleur cables splitting prematurely. We might even see more carbon show up, which in my mind isn't necessary but that's where we've been headed.

[tymon_tm]

trying to sum it up a bit, IMHO it goes like this:

if money's no object, and you're OK with a possibility of a malfunction disabling your bike (e.g. you have a good LBS nearby) just get what you want. even if you're new to cycling, electronic groupset won't hold you back. (it's not like with skiing, where buying top-of-the-shelve grand slalom skiis will actually make learning very hard for you).

if you've limited budget, or are just price conscious, you feel your equipment has to be 100% dependable, plus you live in the wilderness and communicate with the world through internet and fedex (I actually know a guy like that) - then perhaps you forget about electronic, for now at least.

as for myslef, next week or so "my" new Aeroad will arrive.. with Ultegra.. Di2.. the horror! I wanted the red so badly and the price was so damn right I took a risk and ordered, especially since one of my pals rides same sized bikes and we decided whoever likes it more gets it. if not I can always disassemble it, sell in pieces, and actually make some money on top of that

[Geoff]

100% agree. Having said that, the stories you hear about Di2 are all true. In my experience, Di2 (or EPS) never fails. It makes shifts when you may not be able to (due to inattention, fatigue or weather) (sorry, Jonny Rad, it is what it is). @Powerful Pete, that's what I said about Super Record, too...

[Butcher]

Just to make it clear to everyone involved, the EPS system is so easy to shift, I have accidentally pushed the lever and caused an unwanted shift. Heavy winter gloves and cold hands with a dose of old age raises the odds of that happening.

How can you ask what can be done to make mechanical better without mentioning electric? Electric by far has an accurate shift every time. The same speed shifting every time. The speed of your hand making a shift varies on any ride or rider. That alone is something that mechanical can benefit from. I have no idea what engineer will resolve that issue.

Electrics have their issues and they are valid, but the quality of the shift is something that mechanical will have to get better at in order to evolve to the next step.

[MikeDee]

100% agree. Having said that, the stories you hear about Di2 are all true. In my experience, Di2 (or EPS) never fails. It makes shifts when you may not be able to (due to inattention, fatigue or weather) (sorry, Jonny Rad, it is what it is). @Powerful Pete, that's what I said about Super Record, too...

I was on a bike tour a couple of weeks ago. One rider had a Campy electric shift system. One day it didn't shift, so he had to sag. He claimed it was a dead battery. The next day, it would only shift through half his gears. The next day, magically it worked fine. Maybe a bad connection?

[Multebear]

and you're OK with a possibility of a malfunction disabling your bike (e.g. you have a good LBS nearby)

Disagree. I've never had a Di2 malfunction. And this goes for my 5-6 teammates with Di2 as well. Actually, I don't know anyone with a malfunctioning Di2.

[fromtrektocolnago]

So now mechanical fails or our fingers do in cold weather. But when hands are numb, even applying brakes can be an issue, but rather seek out warmer glove solutions to prevent frost bite, the answer is DI2?
If my hands are so cold I can't shift or brake I know there are bigger issues.

[wheelsONfire]

Jesus.... what is this? This is about mechanical not electronic!
Give up!

[prendrefeu]

Weightweenies.

Not too long ago (or am I getting that old in the tooth), this forum was full of folks who liked to tune their rigs - and I don't mean "making it look color coordinated and stylish", but more of editing, refining, re-engineering and redesigning every aspect of their builds to make things lighter.

The records for lightest bikes changed up their gearing. Considerations were given to reducing the number of cogs in the back to changing springs for lighter weights and so forth.

Now it seems like this forum is more about "well I've got the latest tech, the most expensive swag!" as opposed to looking at the options available in the marketplace (THE FULL MARKETPLACE, not just what you can get from your local shop) and refining them on your own, using your own brain, your own willpower, and the occasional inspiration or help from others on the forum.

Electronic? That's great. I'm sure it shifts fine. I'm sure if you're too tired (?!) to shift it will do the job for you... and honestly as someone who does ultra-level events I'm wondering how the heck is someone "too tired to shift"... really?

But how about that tuning aspect? How many of you are taking a rotary tool to your electronic groupset? How many of you are looking at it thinking "it can be lighter" (and not just a battery swap)... How many of you really should be over at BikeForums just regurgitating the same schtick to everyone else?
If you started there and made your way here, and then somehow along the way went electronic, that's fine - but come on, THIS IS WEIGHTWEENIES. TUNE THE SH*T OUT OF THAT GROUP! APPRECIATE IT WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE OR DO SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OFF THE SHELF. APPRECIATE IT WHEN PEOPLE WANT TO SEEK OUT THE BEST OPTION FOR THEIR OWN NEEDS/FUNDS WHILE MAKING IT LIGHTER! If you can't do that, seriously, there are other places for you to converse with people who love to ride.

If you like Electronic, that's great. Want to bring it into this thread? At least talk about tuning the f*ck out of it. I genuinely want to see some real tuning attempts at an electronic groupset. DO IT! Not being sarcastic, I want to see it! Convince me that it's capable of flowing in my weightweenie blood!

If you like electronic, I'm glad for you. If you think it's the bees knees, I'm sure it is. If you think you can't live without it, I genuinely feel sorry for you (again, not sarcasm, but actual empathy and sadness for you).

Otherwise let's just talk about mechanical. Please.