The Canyon conundrum.

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kauphy
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:38 am

by kauphy

I've wanted to get a Canyon for a long long time and finally I can get one now!

I currently ride a Ridley Fenix and I really like it. I can't decide if I should get the Aeroad or the Ultimate CF SLX! I've gone back and forth on this and thought I'd put it out there: what's the difference? what will a rider feel different if he jumps on an aeroad from an ultimate and vice versa. I know there might not be many people out there who would have ridden both but I wanted to hear as much as possible before making the decision.

Btw, I test rode the new aeroad for a couple of minutes and it didn't blow me away like I expected it to. Sure, it was stiffer and more responsive than my current bike and it put a smile on my face but it didn't BLOW me away, if you know what i mean. Maybe my current bike isn't all that bad or maybe my expectations were too high or maybe it was too short a ride to notice much. I wish I could test ride an Ultimate too but that's not going to happen. So what I hear and read will help me decide on which I should get! If I hadn't ridden the Aeroad, it would have been what I would have ordered. But now I'm left wondering IF the Ultimate would give me that "BLOW me away" feeling.

Thanks for reading!

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kkibbler
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

That 'blown away' feeling you're expecting? That comes from marketing, not X% more lateral stiffness and Y% more compliance and Z% more aero.

Get an Aeroad if you care a lot about aero. Get an Ultimate if you don't care that much about aero.

Perhaps this question can be better answered if we knew what you are looking for in a new bike. Or if you knew what you are looking for, beyond a brand and a Wow factor.

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Kayrehn
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

Getting blown away usually means getting a novel experience, but even aero bikes needs to be ridden hard to go fast. Unless you get something drastically different like something with suspension like the Pinarello K8-S or the Trek Domane, ride quality is unlikely to be significantly different.

You could get something with a different geometry though, that can affect handling and your perception of the ride. I changed bike and dropped 13mm at the head tube and I felt real aero. Or you can get a smaller bike with longer stem, or vice versa to tune the handling of it.

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kauphy
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:38 am

by kauphy

kkibbler, is it as simple as "get an aero bike if you care much about aero"? with any aero bike, you must be *giving up* something for more aero (or else why would one ride anything else?). I want to know exactly what someone would be giving up if they picked, in this case, an Aeroad over an Ultimate.

Kayrehn, I have thought a fair bit about the different geometry part. The Aeroad's geometry is significantly more aggressive than the Ultimate's and a slightly smaller bike is something that I wanted to try as well. But I can probably go one size smaller in Ultimate as well with a long stem and achieve the same geometry as an Aeroad which again brings us back to Aeroad vs Ultimate.

Timujin
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm

by Timujin

I was in two minds, i went with Ultimate (too soon as a few weeks later they announce new one)

I really like the ride, compared with my previous bike (De Rosa Merak Evo).... I hold my own on club rides, most have "aero bikes"...

Go with what you will feel will make you happy with the right geometry...

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kkibbler
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

Used to be weight was the main compromise, stiffness to a smaller degree as well with less sophisticated tube shapes. But nowadays, and specifically between these 2 bikes, the aero frame is not much heavier than the other, and stiffness is on par. Not that those are noticeable differences from a 15 min test ride. Other differences like geometry and aesthetics come down to preference and individual riding style.

Timujin
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm

by Timujin

kkibbler wrote:Used to be weight was the main compromise, stiffness to a smaller degree as well with less sophisticated tube shapes. But nowadays, and specifically between these 2 bikes, the aero frame is not much heavier than the other, and stiffness is on par. Not that those are noticeable differences from a 15 min test ride. Other differences like geometry and aesthetics come down to preference and individual riding style.


Agree. My mate has one sub 7kg.. On 404s clincher too...

Especially if you end up getting the new ultimate, it's more 'aero' than previous model...


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Marin
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

The front wheel influences aero 3x more than the frame. If you want speed, get the best wheelset.

The frame is the heaviest component of the bike, the one that determines fit the most, and the one that usually has the most obvious branding.

So you can base your decision on weight, fit and style :)


Footnotes: IMO, comfort is influenced by tire choice and pressure, fit, and seatpost, and not significantly by the frame. Handling is very similar between frames nowadays and also influenced by a lot of other factors, and except for extremely heavy riders, stiffness is adequate on all frames too.

oiso
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:29 pm

by oiso

If your stem is slammed on your current bike and you want to at least as low or lower then get the aeroad. If you have spacers get the Ultimate.

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WMW
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by WMW

kauphy wrote:Btw, I test rode the new aeroad for a couple of minutes and it didn't blow me away like I expected it to. Sure, it was stiffer and more responsive than my current bike and it put a smile on my face but it didn't BLOW me away, if you know what i mean.


It's just a frameset. It doesn't do a lot. If you were "blown away" then it would mean the placebo effect was really working. My bike feels different every time I ride it.

I'd go for the Aeroad. It's a good frame, pros were using it classics races. If you want to go fast, don't leave any significant aero gains on the table without good reason.
formerly rruff...

Viktor
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:16 pm

by Viktor

I have expericened the "WOW"-factor. But that was going from a 90s steel Miyata which I rode for several yaers to a Trek emonda sl 6 for just over $3000. The stiffness of the frame and the reduced weight meant that the bike accellerated as crazy compared to the old Miyata.
A friend who rides a one year old entry level bike borrowed mine and was also blown away but we both recently tested a bike in the $12000 range and we didnt have the same "WOW" experience.
I think that over a certain price point, say 2500 dollars, the bikes are all pretty good. At least from the big brands and any upgrades are fairly incramental and you wont get the same wow factor even though the bike is "that" much greater. The advanteges of the really expensive bikes I think youll notice after a bit more riding than just 20min.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

oiso wrote:If your stem is slammed on your current bike and you want to at least as low or lower then get the aeroad. If you have spacers get the Ultimate.


very much this. the fenix AFAIK is "in between" fitwise between the Aeroad and Ultimate. So as above if you are running spacers the Aeroad would be a difficult fit.

I would add if you have a shorter stem it could prove difficult.

kauphy
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:38 am

by kauphy

Actually, the Fenix's geometry is more or less the same as the Ultimate's (in my size). I ride with a 120mm stem slammed and could go lower. If it's only weight that I'd be giving up with the Aeroad, it really is a no-brainer for me - I'll get the Aeroad. It will surely help to hear from someone who has ridden both of them! I was wondering if there was any stiffness data comparing the Aeroad with other bikes, including the Ultimate.

I have to add - the Ultimate's right now are a great deal and available faster. It's hard to resist! But I'll try and overlook that while making a decision :-)

gravity
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:01 am

by gravity

FWIW, Valverde and Quitana climbed Plateau de Beille on Aeroad. I think it says a lot.

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kkibbler
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

Nitpick: Quintana is rather attached to his 2014/15 Ultimate and rode it on stage 12 as well as every other non-TT stage. Still, valid point considering Rodriguez won the stage on an Aeroad.

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