Professional Fit or Bull S***

[Jmdesignz2]

So my friend and I were having a discussion over so called Pro-fitting done by shops. Some charge upwards of $300 but if you do a second bike they give you that one for $175

I have always adjusted my bikes to how I feel comfortable and with knee over pedal spindle with a slight bend / not hyperextended knee.
Seatpost too high = knee pain in back. Seatpost too low = knee pain in front.
Adjust stem height to my level of comfort/distribution of weight and back flexibility.

He says 99% of them are flim-flam and I was shocked.

How can you tell if the pro-fitting you are getting is worth the money?

Thoughts?

[spiderghost]

If you don't have pain/injury/other problems to deal with the fitting is probably not worth it. It's priceless if you do.

[Mr.Gib]

If you are knowledgeable and have a good eye, you can get yourself set up OK. With time you learn what feels best for you over a variety of situations.

The problem with many "pro-fits" is that they can't do much more then a basic, fundamentally correct set up and indeed a lot of people really need this. But the variations from a basic set up that some of us prefer are just not in the program. For example what about saddle tilt. I ride a curved saddle and I need the front third level to the ground. Every fitter would want to raise the nose a bit so the center section would be level. This would result in my pelvis rolling back slightly and an increase in back pain. Why pay for advice like that?

Even looking at the pros as a population to study, they are all over the map. Notwithstanding body type, some guys are low and set back, others are high and shoved forward . Its partly a matter of balance between comfort and power output that is learned over time. There are just some things a measuring tape can't tell you.

OTOH, I say if you are not sure, paying for a fit is worthwhile, particularly where physical anomalies such as leg length discrepancies, or odd body proportions are concerned.

[weenie]

generally if you need pro-fitting its because your setup doesnt work and you dont know why, at which point you go to an actual pro-fit (ie, a doctor), not a shop.
i've never seen shop personnel that had medical training for this - they just know how to set the bike up for you. Not worth 300 USD. If they're specially trained and do it precisely, well maybe. Not even sure if a doctor-pro-fit is worth that much tho... unless you're in pain and don't know what else to do.

Heck in my origin country (which is located in europe) - the basic fit (non-medical, just made by a bike mech) comes free with the bike if you ask for it in most places.

[Kayrehn]

If you don't have pain/injury/other problems to deal with the fitting is probably not worth it. It's priceless if you do.

Much true. My retul fitter solved my knee pain immediately and it never recurred again. Gonna do one for my tt bike as well because I've no idea what I should adjust even though there's shoulder discomfort. But before that I'm perfectly happy on the roadie, and that's what most recreational riders need to be.

[prendrefeu]

How can you tell if the pro-fitting you are getting is worth the money?

Ideally your bike will be an extension of your body, the two of you will be in complete harmony whether the road/trail is flat, down or up.
A pro-fitting, even if it adjusts a few mm in only one area compared to your "it feels right" self-fit, can mean the difference between a long term injury and the ability to ride without fatigue for a full day. It is worth it.

How much are you willing to spend? That is really up to you.
Ask around for recommended fitters, their prices can vary. A retul (or similar) fit method is particularly high end and may be worth it if that ultra-level of refinement is worth it to you (ie, maximizing your power output by fit).

Good luck.

[uraqt]

It's not that easy and it's not an yes or no answer.... a post I posted right after I a fit

Neither, my point of view is that the 4 or 5 hours on the trainer is not close enough to real riding. I think you are better off buying the software you want and getting real video of you riding. I also think as you get better, you will want to change your fit and having the tools to test and verify your fit over and over again is a good idea.

I think that you do it yourself, or with your local club

here is one

http://www.siliconcoach.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there a 4 or 5 more..


Yes this is crazy talk ; ) but we spend 1,000s of hours on the bike and 1,000 $ on bike hardware what is a little more money for some software and some time spent leaning about fitting?

C

PS Body Geometry uses the silicon coach software

[Ozrider]

I'm with @prendrefeu on this
So you go out and buy a $6000-10 000 bike, shoes, helmet, sunglasses, gloves, bibs and jerseys ( 2,3,4 sets) but you want to get on your bike and set your position by what just feels right?
$300 for a Retul or Specialized BG fit done by an experienced fitter with a sound knowledge of bio-mechanics is money well spent in my opinion.
I recently had a Retul fit done which took nearly 4 hours. At the end the adjustments were fairly minor -
- Cleats moved back about 1cm
- Saddle up 3 mm
- Stem up 5 mm - moved 1x5mm spacer from above to below stem
- Bars/hoods rotated up 3 degrees.
However while on a few long rides post fit comfort has improved considerably
I'm no longer "clawing" my toes and foot comfort is vastly improved
My shoulders and neck feel a lot more relaxed after 3 plus hours riding
I'm no longer getting numbness or tingling in my right hand

Sure, many bike shops offer bike fit facilities, and a basic measure and fit should be included in the price and as part of delivery of your new bike (if you are new to cycling) to get you out and riding in a good position. Things like setting you up with the correct width saddle, stem length and bar width can save you money and improve comfort right from the start.
As your strength and flexibility increase your fit may change
Injury might necessitate a position change
The type of riding you are doing - commuting, racing, audax, touring, etc all affect your positioning
As you age and your body changes with age you might need to,adjust your fit
For the more serious cyclist it is really worth getting set up properly so that you are comfortable on the bike, and that you are bio-mechanically efficient.
Going the DIY route is never going to achieve the same results, much like DIY coaching or many DIY projects in general. A professional that has experience and knowledge in a field will do the job better and often save lots of time spent in trial and error.

[0psi]

So my friend and I were having a discussion over so called Pro-fitting done by shops. Some charge upwards of $300 but if you do a second bike they give you that one for $175

Second bike is cheaper because the fitter already knows what you are capable of and only has to set up the bike.

With our fittings the majority of the process is a physical assessment to see what your body can do in regards to flexibility, strength, etc. and identifying any issues such as limb length disparities or injuries that might affect how I set a bike up. The actual client on bike time probably only makes up about 25-30% of the time of the total fitting which can take anywhere from 2 to 4 hours.

Is it worth it? If you are a social rider that rides 150km on a good week then no. If you are a racer who is trying to eek out a bit of extra performance or someone who does Gran Fondo style events then absolutely it's worth it.

And just because you think you are comfortable on your bike doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. I had a fitter (Who often works with Trek Factory Racing) eyeball me on my TT bike and moved my saddle up 1.5cm and my extensions forward nearly a centimeter. I thought I was pretty good before but a couple of small changes and my bike is nearly as comfortable as my couch now.

Make sure your fitting comes from someone reputable though. Most of the time decent fitters just do fitting an nothing else but fitting. 9 times out of 10 'that bloke from the bike shop' won't really have much of an idea what he's doing often referring to old fitting ideas like knee over pedal spindle, front hub should be obscured by the bars and cleats should be under the ball of your foot. People blindly follow all of these 'fitting protocols' without ever knowing why. I did a fit for a guy who had a 'fit' done by a guy at the bike shop where he bought his bike and even before I saw him on the bike I was baffled by how someone could set up a bike like that. We got talking during the fit and it turns out the guy that did the clients fit was adamant that the bars had to obscure the front hub, so much so that the fitting process was essentially an exercise in hiding a hub which resulted in an atrocious fit. The front hub was however, obscured. I generally don't like making huge changes to a riders position straight away but this guy was so bad that we basically started from the beginning and he'd have to take the time to get used to the entirely new position. I expected him to take a few months to get used to the position but straight away he said that all the niggling pains he was getting had gone and he was setting PBs left right and centre. Funnily enough his front hub was still obscured by his handlebars but that was a happy coincidence from a decent fit rather than the process to get a fit.

[duvivr6]

The issue here is that there are fitters and then there are fitters. Some folks have been doing this for very long and understand the bicycle and the body, this way they can make you ride better together with your bike. The other kind is the one that took the retul training and now is a certified fitter.

I go for more of the old school fitter with experience; you don’t need computers and sensors to fit someone correctly. Talk to your fitter before you do anything; tell them what you are looking for. You should run the show not the fitter; they should advice you on what could be better. Most of everyone fitted has good results and if it didn’t work then you should be able to discuss with the fitter to address that specific issue.

Finally there is no formula that fits everyone, and fit changes as time goes by.

[sharkman]

As said, for a first bike or in case of problems a good fittment is worth the money.
For the rest I would says if the former bike fits fine just copy that and adjust in tiny steps when needed.
I like a experienced fitter (that uses the help of a good fitting program when needed). Over the years started to hate unqualified "specialists"
that relied completely on a state of the art bike program to come with the "perfect fittment" at a price.
Tried a lot of these programs and with the same data most of them came with different outcome.

Over the years I learned select a few measuments with simple tools that wil result in a 95% perfect fittment, the rest can be realized on owners preference and a ride together (which says imho., way more that the best program).

[MJB]

I was fitted by a trained independant fitter for my first serious road bike after 25 years of not turning a pedal in anger and ultimately found the bike was too much of a stretch for me and still uncomfortable after 10 months of regular riding. The fitter used conventional (read 'old school') techniques to measure me and the bike which were backed up by a few other riders whos opinions I value. So I persisted and spent another 4 months making slight adjustments with stems and seat post offsets etc but no joy.

I then sold that bike and built my own bike from the frame up using the intuitive feel for my own body and the percieved shortcomings I had felt and long considered whilst riding the original bike.

This new build was a success from the start, with me feeling less stretched out, not tiring from the discomfort I used to acumulate from riding the original fitted bike and ultimately improving my distances, my times and my abilty to train harder and recover. I've also gained immense riding enjoyment from building a bike to my own spec. I have built another three wildly varying types of road bike since using this first self build as a template and have now 4 road bikes that are very different in frame type / geometry / material used that I am comfortable riding.

My experience says a bike fit can be a very individual thing. I know some riders that can get straight onto all sorts and sizes of bikes and feel comfortable right away and keep going for hours and others like myself simply don't find long held conveninal fitments agreeable.

If you have no idea as to what sizing and fit you are then a fitment is always going to be cheap insurance from making a significant mistake, however, a fitment is not nec. going to suit all the people, all of the time.

[cyclenutnz]

A large number of paid for bike fits are rubbish. Most of my clients have had fits elsewhere before. And not just from guys doing hide the hub - week long training courses in modern methods do not an expert fitter make. Like any profession this takes diligent effort and continuing education to be good.

With some clients all I'm doing is making sure nothing is badly wrong - they're so insensitive to changes that they'll barely notice a position that is "better"
With others a fit makes the difference between hating the bike and loving it. And with loving it comes riding more and thus getting stronger. And then I get to feel like I've made a difference (I do check up after they've had a couple of months to settle in).

It's easy on the tri/tt side - I can measure aero gains derived from the fit which gives conclusive proof that it is better.

@Mr.Gib - pros are a terrible example. There are a lot of horrible fits - plenty of riders sitting too far forward who you never see down in the drops because they're not balanced on the bike. And then some who are perfect. Being a pro is about wanting (and being able) to ride a lot, not about perfect form or knowing anything about equipment.

[Valbrona]

Bike fits work for novices.

But if you are a serious amateur ... do hundreds of miles a week ... can ride hard for 6 hours + without any discomfort well then common sense tells you that if there is something 'wrong' it ain't much, and it is probably something that could be sorted with a bit of trial and error.

I once asked the rather young looking bike fitter in a large/leading chain of shops how long he had been cycling for and he said 'two years'. I know of other fitters that have merely 'dabbled' in competitive cycling and have never even ridden at a modest amateur level.

[Kayrehn]

I once asked the rather young looking bike fitter in a large/leading chain of shops how long he had been cycling for and he said 'two years'. I know of other fitters that have merely 'dabbled' in competitive cycling and have never even ridden at a modest amateur level.

^That. I paid more for my fitter who had continental race experience for years, goes to Germany every year for learning, adopts different tech into his fit sessions (such as using pressure sensors on the bars and saddle). Worth every penny. I don't really trust fitters who work at LBS, because that's not their core biz.