Healthy amount of play on zipp 404 fc rear?

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tri
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:44 am

by tri

I just bought a pair of zipp 404 fc clinchers. The front wheel runs smooth and there is no play in the hub. But the rear is another story. It runs smooth in it self but if I grab a hold of the rim and move it side to side there is (according to me) significant play with distinct "boundaries" where you feel it stop. I've been reading up and Zipp themselves says that there should be some play that is removed when you load the load the wheels i.e sit on the bike.

Now I just want to ask or see it in person (on video), what is a "healthy" amount of play on the 188/v9 hub?

newforker
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:24 am

by newforker

There will always be play in a carbon rear wheel, but it should not be more than about 1 cm in either direction.

The pre-load nut on Zipp hubs does have a tendency to work itself loose. But adjusting for it is fairly simple.

Loosen the pinch bolt, screw in the pre-load (its really hard to over-tighten it with your fingers, but tighten until play stops and wheel spins free/smoothly) and re-tighten pinch bolt.

Might want to consider adding some Loctite on both the pre-load cap threads and pinch bolt threads.

Source: worked at a shop, and this was a common occurrence/solution to zipp hubs!

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Calnago
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by Calnago

newforker wrote:There will always be play in a carbon rear wheel, but it should not be more than about 1 cm in either direction.

I'm presuming you're referring specifically and only to Zipp wheels.
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newforker
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:24 am

by newforker

Just re-read my post..didnt mean play per se..just that all carbon wheels have give/flex in them..

At the same time depends on the hub, more than a carbon wheel..I have seen Chris King R45's with play in them

McGilli
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:57 pm

by McGilli

I've got 303's - and they have the 'play' that you're referring to. Seems totally healthy to me - but just a few weeks ago a buddy tried them and started saying they need to be serviced because there was way too much lateral movement. He also has 303's - i didn't think to check his wheels.

Anyways I have kept on riding them without changing anything and they been excellent as always. It does suck that the Zipp tech documents for the wheels which indicate there should be that looseness don't say what range is acceptable or not...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Can't speak for the newest Zipps but yes, the older ones definitely have lateral play by design. That design has always been a little disconcerting to me and like your friend, thought a brand new Zipp needed some hub adjustment until learning that's how it's supposed to be. There is no lateral play in a properly adjusted Campy hub for example. Or most other hubs for that matter. Zipp has done a lot of things "against the grain" so to speak over the years. Rear Radial drive side spoking was another such idea. Still shaking my head over that one.
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tinozee
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by tinozee

You can adjust the newer 188 hubs so there is little to no play and still have smooth rolling hubs. The key is to adjust the preload with the wheel in the droputs. I get it close with fingers before installing in dropouts, put wheel in, then top it off with the allen key til play is nil. After that wheel is set and forget until I have to clean or replace bearings.

DuncanS
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:42 pm

by DuncanS

http://www.zipp.com/support/maintenance/88-188_hub_maintenance.php

Users can adjust the pre-load on the bearings by tightening or loosening the clinch nut. To do this:
Use 2mm hex wrench to loosen set screw in non-drive pinch nut.
To increase pre-load, tighten non-drive clinch nut desired amount (standard right hand threads). Note: Zipp does not recommend increasing pre-load past the factory-set level. Increased pre-load reduces bearing life and increases running friction.
To decrease pre-load, loosen non-drive clinch nut desire amount.
To return to the factory-set pre-load, tighten the non-drive clinch nut until you just feel it touch the bearing. Then turn it counter-clock-wise 1/8 of a revolution to back it off the bearing. Once the quick release is loaded, the clinch nut will contact the bearing and provide a small amount of pre-load.
Secure clinch nut by tightening set screw to 0.8 Nm.


goodboyr
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Location: Canada

by goodboyr

With the wheel in dropout and bike in stand I tighten preload until wheel only free spins a few turns. Then I back off cinch nut an eighth and lock down. I give the wheel a few side taps to make sure play is right. (I've found the the play will reappear after the taps sometimes and I will readjust).

tri
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:44 am

by tri

The adjustment with the wheel attached to the bikes or in the dropouts was a good idea. I've tighten down the nut and the distinct side to side movement is gone. And the wheel still spins smooth.

Although I'm still curious on how much the proper tension looks like, 1/8 inch or 1/16 inch of a turn and what not, is kinda vague. I've seen the videos provided but they don't show the "final product". Just the steps to get there, these I understand.

tinozee
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

It's true, the methods they suggest are somewhat vague. In the video he suggests "putting the bike in the quick releases" lol. There is a grey area that you have to get used to by feel, hand tightening the preload cap/nut. "Contact" can feel different depending on grease pack, etc. so you have to know your own setup to a degree. Once you do it a number of times you well get a feel for it.

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