BB 86-4130 Bearings

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goodboyr
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by goodboyr

This will end badly.........

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Rick
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by Rick

I don't really think it makes a measurable change in power, but I have been using the same pair of VCRC ceramic BB30 bearings for about 5 years now.
I squirt them out good with a solvent once a year and repack with Phil Wood grease, and put some marine grease over the top (under the outer dust cap) for environmental protection. They are "good bearings". But I think the environment and sealing are more important than anything else influencing the longevity of BB bearings.

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highdraw

by highdraw

Rick wrote:I don't really think it makes a measurable change in power, but I have been using the same pair of VCRC ceramic BB30 bearings for about 5 years now.
I squirt them out good with a solvent once a year and repack with Phil Wood grease, and put some marine grease over the top (under the outer dust cap) for environmental protection. They are "good bearings". But I think the environment and sealing are more important than anything else influencing the longevity of BB bearings.

In bold is right Rick. The vast majority of bikes sold have BB's with steel bearings that last for many thousands of miles. Its pretty well know that Ceramic bearings are largely a false economy and there isn't a watt difference between ceramic and steel or no more than a watt...lol. What affects bogus free spin videos are seal drag and even crank preload which is largely nebula.

A side note for BB86 owners that just must run a 30mm crank...don't. If you want best in class, run the following BB aka 4124 made my Shimano for 50 bux.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/shima ... lsrc=aw.ds


Save your money for tires.
Just run a DA crank on a wide shell bike or if more on a budget Ultegra or even Shimano 105 11s.
Unless you are a 1500 watt rider there is no benefit to a 30mm crank and it could be argued that a DuraAce crank is the best in the world...certainly has the more robust design for installation and preload. There is a reason that Shimano hasn't jumped on the 30mm bandwagon...no value added.
So if you have a 41mm wide shell BB86 bike, just run a DA or Ultegra crank with Shimano's BB which is robust, cheap and highly sealed. Plug and play and dead quiet with Loctite.

As to the shill here trying to sell his bearings based upon bogus claims, I can come on the forum and say I can fly or drop Cavendish on a sprint but without data, it doesn't make it so. Even presented data can have serious limitations and be biased to flatter a given aspect of performance which has little relevancy in the real world...like the dumb spin test that proves nothing in real world riding when greater vertical load is placed on bearing surface which can completely change associated drag. Double row bearings can fail miserably at a free spin test but offer less resistance under load for example. Proof? See how much bearing drag there is by placing a 4130 ceramic bearing on the front of an automobile. Then find out how relevant a free spin test is compared to a free spin of an automobile front axle spin.
Last edited by highdraw on Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rmerka
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by rmerka

lewolive wrote:
Can you provide me a good 41/30 with 2 Abec-3 bearings for 2*$7 ?


This seems like a good choice from an economic standpoint and features a double row of balls, I assume is meant to compensate for the puny size of the balls. I know it's not cheap at $80 for a pair but it's better than $200

http://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb86-92/bb86-92-bottom-brackets/bb86-to-30mm-sealed-bearing.html

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lewolive
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by lewolive

I cannot be ok with saying that because Shimano thinks it is not the best solution, all manufacturers need to follow Shimano standards.
You need to consider first that Shimano is there to make money today, tomorrow and after tomorrow. All the products that they make are there to be reliable at an acceptable price and a good performance for the price, that's all. So, Shimano may say something to convince people, but in reality they do it from the cheapest way, or the solution that has the best compromise.
If you keep all your cranks with 24mm, that's a dream in terms of bearings, you just need to have one for each and you don't take many risks because everyone is able to supply some smooth steel bearings in 24mm.
I agree that 24mm spindles are stiff enough for 95% of the population, but for the 5% remaining, if they can get more stiffness and save a few grams, It's a calculation that can be done. There is a market, maybe a niche, but there is a market for 30mm spindles.

On wheelsmanufacturing, I had the chance to see the bearings at the Interbike. They are serious and have a good reputation. The quality looks awesome for steel bearings and I really see that as a good alternative to the ceramic that I provide.

On the load, a BB86 has the arms directly on the bearings. It means there are nos spacers to change significantly the stiffness at 1000-1500W. And also, a 30mm crank is stiff... the Rotor Inpower is super stiff. So, something that you may observe on some 24mm cranks with spacers is absolutely not visible on a Rotor crank directly mounted on the BB86.

alexhem
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by alexhem

@lewolive thanks for sharing the video.

Do you know how you option would fare compared to CeramicSpeed? http://www.ceramicspeed.com/sport/produ ... 000/PF4130

lewolive
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by lewolive

alexhem wrote:@lewolive thanks for sharing the video.

Do you know how you option would fare compared to CeramicSpeed? http://www.ceramicspeed.com/sport/produ ... 000/PF4130


Alex,

Ceramicspeed has released this product after CyclingCeramic. I haven't tested it yet.
On the picture, I guess that the cages are in the same material or very close to WheelsMFG and CyclingCeramic: I mean it's a durable cage that will never be rusty.
The difference is probably very limited between CyclingCeramic and CeramicSpeed on this product. I doubt that it can be measured by any athlete (whereas it's very noticeable when you go from a BB86/30 steel to a good Ceramic).
The difference can come from the seals or the grease employed. So, at this step, the price is the main difference. CyclingCeramic is warranted for 2 years.

highdraw

by highdraw

lewolive wrote:I cannot be ok with saying that because Shimano thinks it is not the best solution, all manufacturers need to follow Shimano standards.
You need to consider first that Shimano is there to make money today, tomorrow and after tomorrow. All the products that they make are there to be reliable at an acceptable price and a good performance for the price, that's all. So, Shimano may say something to convince people, but in reality they do it from the cheapest way, or the solution that has the best compromise.
If you keep all your cranks with 24mm, that's a dream in terms of bearings, you just need to have one for each and you don't take many risks because everyone is able to supply some smooth steel bearings in 24mm.
I agree that 24mm spindles are stiff enough for 95% of the population, but for the 5% remaining, if they can get more stiffness and save a few grams, It's a calculation that can be done. There is a market, maybe a niche, but there is a market for 30mm spindles.

On wheelsmanufacturing, I had the chance to see the bearings at the Interbike. They are serious and have a good reputation. The quality looks awesome for steel bearings and I really see that as a good alternative to the ceramic that I provide.

On the load, a BB86 has the arms directly on the bearings. It means there are nos spacers to change significantly the stiffness at 1000-1500W. And also, a 30mm crank is stiff... the Rotor Inpower is super stiff. So, something that you may observe on some 24mm cranks with spacers is absolutely not visible on a Rotor crank directly mounted on the BB86.

Basically your opening conversation is baloney. I will preface and say that Campagnolo is my choice when it comes to crank, BB and groupset but when I say that Shimano has no peers in the crank and BB department, I don't rely on Shimano's marketing which is not extensive by any stretch...or your no name marketing based upon false claims, but rather my pretty vast experience with Shimano cranks and BB's. They are simply the most reliable and offer the best shift performance and have super cheap and easy to install BB's. Their stuff is very hard to beat for not only price point but for performance and reliability. So no, I don't base my buying decisions based on what Shimano says and btw, they let their products do the talking and when it comes to their cranks and BB's in particular there is no better value in my experience.

We do agree on Wheel Manufacturing. A solid company who has done their homework and offers a good reliable product and BB solutions at a fair price.

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mythical
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by mythical

Most of these 4130 BB's/proprietary bearings are based on 61806 bearings that, as Mario Jr. tried to point out, have 5/32 or Ø3.97mm balls and with steel balls typically have a static load capacity of about 3800N and dynamic load capacity of ±5350N.

Double row bearing BB's are typically based on much lighter 6706 bearings (also used in Extralite upper headset assemblies) that have much smaller balls and a specified static load capacity of ±950N and dynamic load capacity of ±1150N. Using four of these micro bearings still isn't adequate in comparison to two of its larger brother.

And bearing friction also has to do with what grease and seal/shield type as well as cage construction and material. Then concentricity of the bearings matters for both friction and bearing life, and preload as well as maintenance.

Personally, I'd go for either the 55 gram THM BB86 bearings or, if you're willing to part with this much cash, the superior €369 CeramicSpeed PF4130 coated version that can even run without lubrication. I tested some of the first samples of these since before they were officially released and they seem to last forever.

Once, I handed Lars Boom a pair for the BB of his main grand tour bike, and later he seemed to swear by them.
“I always find it amazing that a material can actually sell a product when it’s really the engineering that creates and dictates how well that material will behave or perform.” — Chuck Teixeira

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grid256
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by grid256

highdraw wrote:A side note for BB86 owners that just must run a 30mm crank...don't. If you want best in class, run the following BB aka 4124 made my Shimano for 50 bux.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/shima ... lsrc=aw.ds

After fighting my 3D+ crank in my Volare I've taken the above route. Works like a charm. Actually it seems bomb proof. Many months of rain, slime and training and not a peep out of the bb.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

How many use Enduro XD-15 bearings? For example, 6806 in direct-fit application?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Timujin
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by Timujin

Well... I went for bikeporn in the end and got myself the ceramic speed ones... If you look fast you are fast.... Lol

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koene
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Location: Belgie

by koene

Was looking to buy a second hand rotor + power2max set but having doubts now since there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution. I could run the 24mm with the da bb for bb86 as suggested above, but those bb's are harder to find 2nd hand..

octave
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm

by octave

hey everyone,


so, i will be running Quarq Dzero Aluminum Chassis with a 30mm spindle on a bb86 frame... so i am jump-starting this thread to find out if anyone can re-recommend a pf4130 bearing. in this thread, i have that these are good:

raceface cinch bb92 30mm
e*thirteen 4130
ceramic speed (too expensive for me

and, apparently rotor pf4130 is not good....

one question i have is with the raceface, which seems the best solution from what i can find, but that inner sleeve seems too long for a bb86 shell... or is it telescoping and thus able to shrink down to fit the narrower shell?

thanks everyone,

o

by Weenie


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goodboyr
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by goodboyr

I can't help you, but thanks for resurrecting one of my favourite threads!
:D :beerchug:

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