2016 Venge

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justkeepedaling
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

by justkeepedaling

highdraw wrote:
justkeepedaling wrote:And who has won prior Worlds and on which bikes?


Here's a list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... _champions


Yeah, I can see Sagan in there

by Weenie


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highdraw

by highdraw

glepore wrote:Rider position. Sagan won worlds in part because or the downhill, his tuck, and his cojones. He went thru a couple of those corners completely hung out and solidified his gap.

He is just awesome isn't he? What the sport needed.

Creative genius of Sagan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7WPi3Fo1LQ

BlackMadone
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:12 pm

by BlackMadone

nathanong87 wrote:can we just accept the fact that those that buy this bike should and will buy it because they got the chedda to spend and buy the stuff they want , which hopefully aligns with the goal of looking illest on morning coffee shop ride. #aestheticsareeverything

+100!


sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

highdraw wrote:
sawyer wrote:...and breathe ...

the weight and cost would rule it out for me vs the Canyon. It may well be a bit more
aero but probably marginal at anything other than very high speeds

...and try to be more accurate...
Aero bikes are heavier than non aero bikes and aero benefit is marginal for all aero bikes relative to non aero race bikes or non aero race bikes wouldn't continue to win pro races.

Btw, I would be surprised if there were two other people on this forum other than myself who understood why aero bikes are heavier than non aero bikes for a given frame size.


Er, not sure why you are introducing the concept of accuracy.

My comment was in relation to the Canyon Aeroad CF SLX, an aero frame that, if the weight values above for the Venge Vias are more or less accurate, is lighter, and of course much cheaper.

Given the aero claims made for the Vias vs. the Venge, and the comparative performance of the Venge and Canyon in so far as it can be understood, it would not surprise me if the Vias comes out marginally more aero, but at a weight and cost penalty.

Where have I been inaccurate exactly?
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1926
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

I thought there was an unwritten rule about quoting around here? Enough with the quotes.

Please, moderators help out here. Time for the circus to leave town we all have had a laugh, but the clown is getting scary.

Franklin
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am

by Franklin

The really funny part here is that all the detractors comments are not only belied by science, they vcan also be dissected wquite easily.

Clipless pedals were not universally adopted within 4 years. I assume they were failed prodductsw? :)
Aero helmets were not used by every contender for years after they were shown to be effective. I assume aero helmets are nonsense?
There are still reider winning races with bikes heavier than 7kg, I assume weight is thus a non-factor?

Even the detractors will read above list and realize that this is akin to their own argument. Considering tghey also know the science is against them the whole argument is hilariously funny.

Aerodynamics are extremely important and though the bike is a small factor of it, it will become more and more adopted. And the whole argument that an aerobike is inherently to heavy is already been proven to be nonsense (it's easy to build a aero bike at UCI weight). The whole comfort thing is also amusing considering testing has shown that it's aalmost impossible to feel a difference when tested blind Tires are decisive there.

All in all, I'm really amused how there are people who are denying physics.

highdraw

by highdraw

sawyer wrote:
highdraw wrote:
sawyer wrote:...and breathe ...

the weight and cost would rule it out for me vs the Canyon. It may well be a bit more
aero but probably marginal at anything other than very high speeds

...and try to be more accurate...
Aero bikes are heavier than non aero bikes and aero benefit is marginal for all aero bikes relative to non aero race bikes or non aero race bikes wouldn't continue to win pro races.

Btw, I would be surprised if there were two other people on this forum other than myself who understood why aero bikes are heavier than non aero bikes for a given frame size.


Er, not sure why you are introducing the concept of accuracy.

My comment was in relation to the Canyon Aeroad CF SLX, an aero frame that, if the weight values above for the Venge Vias are more or less accurate, is lighter, and of course much cheaper.

Given the aero claims made for the Vias vs. the Venge, and the comparative performance of the Venge and Canyon in so far as it can be understood, it would not surprise me if the Vias comes out marginally more aero, but at a weight and cost penalty.

Where have I been inaccurate exactly?

Because you are engaging in a more pedantic and meaningless debate. Whether the Canyon or Venge are more aero than each other doesn't matter because this difference is miniscule and noise relative to speed. This .005% either way is eclipsed by not only other qualities of each bike in terms of handling, response to pedal force, ride comfort etc not to mention small change in riding position trying to replicate the position of the same rider on either bike. Your argument is moot. The larger argument is whether an aero bike is faster than a non aero bike and champion riders in some instances choose a non aero bike for a given venue because the perception is will be faster in spite of a slight tubeset shape difference.

If that doesn't sort it out for you then I need to provide a more vivid analogy. A racer has a choice between two slippery race cars and can't decide as they each have positive qualities. At the end of the day he decides on race car B because it has a napkin in the glove box...lol.

highdraw

by highdraw

In deference to Butcher about not using quotes because he has no other worthwhile contributions..lol.

Hey Franklin. How about answering me this question. Why did Sagan and/his team choose the Tarmac versus Venge for competing in the world championship? Not that the world championship is important to Sagan or his team's prosperity of course. Why for this important race would they choose a less aero bike?
Would love to hear your explanation. Are the people that do this for a living denying physics as well...or are you denying physics and they understand that a bike's performance qualities is more than a .01% difference in drag coef. in a controlled setting?

superbikemike
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:33 am
Location: Michigan,USA

by superbikemike

Image

It is interesting that Sagan was training on his Venge and not the Tarmac. Then on race day chooses the Tarmac?
Maybe its political?
Either way Sagan is the champion!
Thanks

Mike

Current Rides
2021 Canyon Aeroad CFR Di2
2015 Specialized S-Works Venge Di2
2013 Trek Madone P1 7
2009 Cervelo P3

nd2rc
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:20 pm
Location: Tennessee

by nd2rc

I sure like hearing about how the bike rides, and real world pictures (non-probike), and yes it is interesting and I'd like to know why the pro teams didn't ride it much at the TDF, Vuelta, or Worlds (probably never will). Interesting point by superbikemike, would love to know if there are any industry pro's out there who'd like to comment. But holy shit this engineering/physics debate needs to head over to the "aero bike vs traditional bike" thread.

So, any other ride reports out there? Any pics of real world bikes, maybe some with out the all black paint job? And while I'm submitting requests, the real world pic needs to be after your fitting has be done and you've ridden it.

knukkeltje
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:19 pm

by knukkeltje

superbikemike wrote:It is interesting that Sagan was training on his Venge and not the Tarmac. Then on race day chooses the Tarmac?
Maybe its political?
Either way Sagan is the champion!


He attacks on a short cobbled hill with a 20% maximum gradient. Maybe he just thought that the Tarmac was the best bike for that strategy?

highdraw

by highdraw

knukkeltje wrote:
superbikemike wrote:It is interesting that Sagan was training on his Venge and not the Tarmac. Then on race day chooses the Tarmac?
Maybe its political?
Either way Sagan is the champion!


He attacks on a short cobbled hill with a 20% maximum gradient. Maybe he just thought that the Tarmac was the best bike for that strategy?

Actually its only a fraction of the strategy. Bottom line is the race was on cobbles and it had that short upshoot. A Tarmac is going to be the superior bike to the Venge on a cobble surface...its forward progress is less impeded by a cobble surface because the frame will absorb this deflection better than the Venge. Its same reason that the race is run on wide tubulars...this combo doesn't attenuate speed like a smaller volume tire at higher pressure which will cause more vertical disturbance and reduce speed. This isn't rocket science guys. A Tarmac is also a better climbing bike. Prior to the race, real world testing can be performed by test riders to determine the faster bike with a to b testing...as much as justkeeppedaling yelps for meaningless aero data...which is irrelevant because this deficit is smaller than more dominant contributing features of the course. Aero diff is nebulous relative to other qualities that make the Tarmac faster on 'that' track. Open air...no draft, billiard table smooth roads with no climbing...why wouldn't the Venge win? It should. Reality is...few race courses have these conditions and there are mitigating factors that trump the small aero benefit of a dedicated aero bike.
Last edited by highdraw on Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

knukkeltje
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:19 pm

by knukkeltje

If being hidden in the pack until that final attack was only a fraction of his strategy, what was the vast majority then?

nathanong87
Resident master of GIF
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Contact:

by nathanong87

Image

seriously guys. can u imagine rolling up to starbucks like this doe fully swagged out with specialized skinsuit and vias? so far in front of group , u can stop for a 5 minute coffee break. 10/10
Image

Image
Last edited by nathanong87 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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