Colnago C60: seeking advice

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MiddMan
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

I've followed weight weenies a lot in the last couple of years, so I figured I would finally join as I'm planning to build up a new frame, a Colnago C60. I'm 90% sure I'll go with the C60, 7% chance I might get a Dogma and I suppose 3% or less that I'll get something crazy like a Divo. But in all honestly Colnago is my love! So with that, I am seeking the advice of you Colnago aficionados out there. In particular, I'm curious to get suggestions from fellow tall riders who might be within a few centimeters of me give or take. My measurements are as follows:

Height: 192 cm
Sternum notch: 155 cm
Inseam: 93 cm
Arm length: 74 cm

I'm currently on a 60cm 2002 Trek 5200 OCLV (I'll post a photo soon)
The saddle top to bottom bracket center is 83.5 cm and with a saddle to bar drop of 11 cm.
(Note: I might be willing to change my saddle top to bottom bracket slightly as I'm not fully satisfied with the seat or set-back I'm currently using. But since I'm after a whole new bike, it's just staying where it is for now.)

Given these measurements, I assume I'm looking for either a 59 or 61 traditional, or else a 58 sloping or possibly (though probably not) 56 sloping (?)

I'm especially interested hearing from those who are similar to my height and/or have a tall inseam like me. Also, if you have a Colnago C60 or C59 in one of the above sizes, feel free to post it here along with any advice you might have so that we can ogle a little bit too :) After all, sure I'm most interested in fit and riding, but looks do matter on a dream bike!

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em3
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Location: NYC

by em3

Seeking fitting advice on the internet is a fools errand, especially when u r about to spend $5K on a new frame...spend the $250-300 for a fitting session and get your fit correct BEFORE purchasing a frame. None of us know ur fitness level, flexibility and riding habits...these r indicators that are more important then basic body dimensions needed for a good fitting. EM3
______________

Cascadebiker
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 11:44 pm

by Cascadebiker

I'm just one cm taller than you and my arms are a couple cm's shorter- I've been advised that a 58 sloping is ideal- given the relatively short top tubes in Colnago geometry you might find you'd need a 140 mm stem if you drop down to a 56 sloping. Even though we've got the same inseam length, I've got between 1-1.5 cm less total distance from the center of the crank to the top of the seat on my bikes.

I've got a new 58 cm sloping C60 RSBK arriving Wednesday- should be built up with Campy Record mechanical by the end of the week- I'll post photos.

What paint scheme is drawing your interest?

MiddMan
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

@em3 I appreciate your input although to assuage your concern, don't worry, I am certainly not going to drop a lot of $£€ just according to another's specs just because we're the same height. That said, I have had a fitting before (with my first one) and did not find it satisfactory (in hindsight). But now that I'm on a bike and I more or less know my contact points, I at least know my range. For example, I know for sure that in traditional geometry I am either 59 or 61. I am certainly not smaller than 59 and anything bigger than 62 (which Colnago doesn't make) would be too big for me. So I do know my size within a couple of centimeters.

FWIW I have already been in touch with 2 professional fitters: one in the UK and one in California. I've exchanged several messages with both and both have been very helpful and have given solid advice accordingly.

As to your other questions: fitness level: very good. I'd rate my flexiblity as average: I can touch my toes and the floor. And I ride a lot: I went for a 25+ mile ride on Thursday and just another 20 mile loop yesterday, both with elevation gains of 1500 feet. I try to put in 150-200 miles per week. I love climbing. Even though that's when I'm going the slowest.. maybe it's the promise of the descent afterwards...


@Cascadebiker, thanks very much for your message, and your help. Congrats on your new baby and that's great you're putting Campy Record mechanical on it--I also think mechanical is the way to go on a Colnago. I think I like the RSWH paint scheme the best, although the one you chose is also quite nice! Looking forward to seeing your photos once you have it built up.

joosttx
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 6:50 am

by joosttx

I'm 185cm and I ride a 54s with a 120mm stem. For your size you may want to get bigger.

LionelB
Posts: 1595
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

1m96 here, 94 inseam, 84cm saddle height, 12cm drop. The ideal fit for me is a 61 trad. That or a 59.5 Dogma which I ended up getting instead as the 61 trad were nowhere to be seen.....

tinozee
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

I'm tall 6'3" but prefer a 56s in Colnago. I have sort of short reach and like a big drop. You need to know your fit well enough so that you can tell what other geos will fit you. Imo it helps if you are riding a ton and in shape. You get your fit dialed and know the wheelbase you like, stack, reach, etc. So many people get fit at a bike shop when they are out of shape, getting back into it, doing low miles etc. I also see a lot of guys get these upright fits that they don't need, they need some damn yoga. Not saying any of this applies to you but beware of getting a bum fit.

Good luck!

cyclenutnz
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
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by cyclenutnz

Your Trek would have Reach/Stack of ~400/590 taking a 30mm headset into account (as far as I can tell from my geometry history - doesn't go back to 2002 but I don't think the Madones changed until they went compact).

C60 sizes most similar to that shown below. From the details you've given I'd expect you have a few spacers so the higher stack of these bikes would be good.
Middman1.PNG


For myself:
Height: 194 cm
Sternum notch: 162 cm
Inseam: 94 cm
Arm length: 69 cm (to centre of palm)

You can see my position in the image below which also shows how I'd fit on Colnagos. I'd probably rather size down to the 59 and use a -6 stem of the same length, but that is a personal preference thing. In normal terms I have a 12.5cm bar drop and 62.5cm reach to bar centre. At the risk of being another "fit by internet" pundit - some of your saddle discomfort may be from rocking on it as you are on the high side of the saddle height range.

Middman2.PNG

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

+1 on the professional fitting. I went that route. It's money well spent. And height is only one part of a fitting. Everybody is unique a good fitting captures that.
Last edited by fromtrektocolnago on Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ghisallo2003
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

-1 on professional fitting.

I found it less useful than personal research and taking advice from experienced co-riders. It was not only expensive, but damaging, irritated a sensitive nerve position. This was from one of the UK's high profile fitters.

c50jim
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:42 am
Location: Calgary

by c50jim

I'm about 2 inches shorter than you and have owned about a dozen 59s, a 54s and a 60 Colnago over the last 20 years. I'd say 59 would be too small for you. My older son is just about your height, although I'm not sure of inseam and other measures. He has an old 59 Tecnos that was mine but has a 13 cm stem, a spacer on the threaded headset and a lot of seatpost to make it work. His 58s C50 is a much better fit and I suspect that's likely to be the right size for you too. I think we ended up with the 58s rather than 61 or 62 because of availability of dealer stock since I was giving the bike to him but wasn't prepared to plunk down the cash for a new C59 (the current model when we bought the C50).

Richt1978
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:55 pm

by Richt1978

I run my saddle 5mm less than you do at 830mm and ride a 56S.

Am 6'2" but have a short upper body so reach is always an issue.

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drmarg
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:19 pm

by drmarg

Check out the Fit System on the Wrench Science website. It nailed my 56S C-60 set up perfectly. Running with a 110mm stem. Watch the reach dimension on your handle bars!
Inseam: 87.6cm
Sternal Notch: 149cm
Height: 183cm
Arm length: 66cm.

It will calculate a "reach dimension" which is defined as the effective top tube plus stem length. This way you can determine which stem length you prefer and subtract to get the effective top tube. Bike fit me like a glove!
Happy shopping!
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2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
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Calnago
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by Calnago

I'm 6'1" (just shy actually) so 184-185cm. Relatively long inseam at 91cm. Given what you say I think a 61 Traditional would be perfect for you and also look the best when set up properly. Your saddle height is about 2cm higher than mine. I'm currently running a 91mm saddle/bar drop. Saddle is at 95mm setback. I run a 20mm offset seat post with a Specialized Romin Pro saddle. Clamps pretty much dead center in the rails. Tip of saddle to middle of center of bars at stem is 625mm. Stem is -8 degrees and 130mm in length. I run one 3mm anodized red spacer under the stem mostly just for "bling". So, raising the saddle would give you the height and the saddle to bar drop you seem to be looking for. You don't sound like a beginner, you're in good shape it sounds like, and you're asking the right questions. Forget the "pro fit". I've seen just as many bad fits as good ones from "pro fit" sessions. If you don't have a clue that might provide a decent starting point. But you seem beyond that. What kills me is when I see someone in an obviously poor setup and position and they refuse to even try anything different because they paid a lot of money to be fit by a "professional". Fit Programs are all too happy to certify most anyone with a pulse that pays to take their training. But have you ever heard of anyone, I mean anyone, who has ever failed this training? Short of not showing up, I think you'll get a certificate as long as you've paid the fee. So if you do go for a fit, don't discount your own common sense in trying to determine if the fitter really knows what the end result should be or is just applying a "system by rote" method. Perhaps when I get home I'll raise my saddle to your height and snap a pic or two to at least give you an idea of what your setup may look like. But I would not go smaller than a 61 traditional. And I'm not a fan of their sloping big sizes at all, although they changed them up a bit for the C60 and actually have two "bigger sizes" instead of a sort of catch all 58s as the largest sloping size in the C59.
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MiddMan
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

Thanks everyone for your valuable input.

I am more inclined to trust the advice of dedicated Colnago enthusiasts who have a lot of experience than a 'professional' fitter who has never stocked, sold or even seen a Colnago. To put things in perspective, I live in a small town in New England and the closest Colnago dealership is at least a 3.5 hour drive one-way. Believe me, if I could test ride one or check one out at a dealer I would. Hence I turn to you fine folks :) And the following are some good examples of some sound advice that I much appreciate:

@ cyclenutnz, You very accurate information and were able to infer things even without having seen my set up (you astutely noted that I must have spacers on my bike due to the Trek geometry and my riding position) and gave some very good stats and solid advice about the C60. I'm also looking to ditch the spacer look--although there's nothing wrong with it, still rides fine--and thank you cyclenutnz for noting that Colnagos have a higher stack which would take of this.

@ Calnago, You have a beautiful bike with a classy build. Really nice proportions and personality! You're right that I'm not a beginner at cycling, though I have never put together my own build before let alone actually built it myself. This one will still be built by a mechanic and not me! But I like to be aware of my position just like I like numbers, heart rate, etc. when I'm on the road. I hear you about the fitting, and that's why I'd be hesitant there. Thankfully, I already have a bike and have been riding for many years, so it's more a matter of fine-tuning my position and figuring out how it translates to the geometry on another frame, ie the C60. I do have a special place in my heart for traditional geometry. I did see a 56s C59 somewhere on weight weenies with nearly identical saddle - bb height and drop as me and I thought it looked quite nice since Colnago has a relatively gentle slope versus other frames. All things being equal, I haven't decided quite which it will be, but I definitely do love traditional.

@ drmarg, Thank you for the reference. I have in fact been in contact with both Wrench Science and also Mike Perry of Maestro UK. Both have been very helpful, although admitedly I'm leaning towards Maestro because he has 30+ years experience with Colnagos and has excellent prices.

Thanks again all.

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