Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate Review

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

User avatar
zappafile123
Posts: 656
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate Review

Tester
- Age: 25
- Physical attributes:
I’m a skinny guy (60-62kg) who isn’t particularly well muscled. As you can see from my power profile below (which will be added tomorrow), I am not an explosive or powerful rider, rather
for what little strength I have, I do ok in the 5-20minute range (Cat 2).

Image

Previous (relevant) wheelset experiences
- DA 9000 C24 tubs, Campagnolo Bora Ultra II, Easton EC90 SL, Hed Jet 6 FR,
- Test bike: Bianchi Oltre XR2 (review to come)

Construction
Mavic’s Cosmic Carbone Ultimate fall into a select subset of wheelsets that employ an integrated carbon rim-to spoke construction. The intent of this design is twofold. First, carbon spokes bonded to a carbon hub shell reduces weight over conventional alloy spoke/hub designs. Second, high modulus carbon spokes are more rigid than their alloy counterparts, the upshot of which is a laterally and vertically stiffer wheel. Clearly, this design is effective at creating an extremely stiff wheel as has been demonstrated by:

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-23159755.html

There is also a thorough description of the construction here:

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-6936793.html

A consequence of this integrated carbon construction is that spoke breakages are allegedly irreparable. However, in the event of a spoke breakage I think it would be worth taking the wheel to a carbon repair company such as ‘paintmybike’ to see if they cant help you out.
Weight

Mavic claim the raw weight of the wheels alone is approximately 1185g. For a tubular wheelset with a 40mm profile, this is competitively light. However, compared to similarly designed wheels such as Lightweight, Reynolds RZR or Corima MCC+, CCU’s are relatively fat losing out ~100-200g respectively.

Ride quality
The immediate sensation when you hop on your bike is that of lightness. My Oltre XR2 slimed from 7.3kg with the Hed Jet 6 FRs to 6.6kg with the Ultimates – respectably light. The only way to describe the contrast from normal heavy training wheels to ultralight tubular wheels is the sensation of the absence of something on your bike. With the heavy Heds, the bike feels planted and firm-footed on the ground with the wheels feeling like an integrated extension of the frame. In contrast, with the Ultimates, as you spin the bike up out of the saddle, it more so feels like just a frame floating through the air. Naturally, this is just a colourful example.

An additional benefit of the low rolling weight is an increase in the nimbleness of the handling. There is such a drastic improvement in cockpit control that when I first got the wheels I oversteered into some corners and had to make quick adjustments to prevent a crash. Don’t mistake this increased manoeuvrability for twitchiness, in contrast, it is easier to pick lines and hold them. No doubt, this is a combination of the low weight of the front wheel as well as its lateral stiffness.

Further to this fluid sensation of lightness is the incredible stiffness of the wheels. Hard accelerations out of saddle are perhaps this wheelsets principal strength. Initially, big efforts are rewarded by an immediate surge forward combined with the feeling that there is absolutely no lateral deflection of the wheels.

Driving along in the saddle, this sensation of immediacy and responsiveness disappears and they feel much like any other wheelset. With a thick, smooth sensation from the hubs, the light rims provide a muted, wooden driving sensation. Given these qualities, over a smooth surface the wheels feel surprisingly unremarkable – they silently hum along and do not contribute much to the overall sensation of the frame.

Despite the 40mm deep aero section, the wheels do not feel particularly aero. Campy Bora’s and especially the Hed Jet 6 FR’s feel like they roll along with greater ease and feel as though they hold their speed with greater ease. To be fair, both wheelsets are 10 and 20mm deeper respectively. For the duration of my test, the wheels were never unduly perturbed by cross winds. They were twitchier than the Heds, but they are not difficult to control.

A downside the immense stiffness of the wheels is that they are incredibly harsh over rough road surfaces. For the duration of my test, I ran either 21mm Vittora Corsa EVO KS or Tufo S3 lite tubs at ~90psi. This was fine up to ~100mins in the saddle. However, by the end of longer rides I felt more fatigued from my core muscles having to provide additional compensation for all the rattling coming through the frame. Adding insult to injury, after a long ride, these wheels literally bouncy over larger bumps in the road which is notably more jarring than other wheelsets I have tried. One way to reduce this harshness would be to put wider i.e. 24-25mm tires on. Alternatively, if your frame is not very stiff, these wheels could breathe a bit of life into the frame.

Hubs
The hubs are biggest weakness of this wheelset. Rolling along, they feel very smooth yet concurrently beset by a subtle friction. This sensation of sluggishness is most evident when you swap between wheelsets. For example, Dura-ace 9000 C24Ts allow the bike to roll along with tangible ease, as if you’re skating over ice. Alternatively, the Hed Jet 6 FR’s provide an immediate sensation as if you are riding with a tail wind (even if you don’t). As you acclimatise to the wheelset, you notice this ‘friction’ less and less and the hubs just feel a thickish smoothness. The A word to describe this feeling of thick smoothness is constraint. The lack of eagerness to fluidly role along is particularly evident with a hard driving pace. Rather than hold their speed as you increase the tempo, the wheels feel like they just want to slow down. Whether the wheels are objectively subject to high hub frication is uncertain, rather, they just feel slow. This creates a somewhat paradoxical ride quality. On the one hand, due to the low weight and the stiffness, the wheels initially feel very fast, but then once they are rolling along, they feel comparatively slow. The sensation of slowness is a big psychological blow particularly from the perspective of trying to dig deep at the end of a race or during a hard interval. The feeling of inhibition does not promote the will to dig deep if that makes sense.

You may be thinking, “There must be something wrong with your hubs!” I assure you, they have been checked over by a mechanic are in prime working condition. To conclude, they are just inferior hubs to the competition.

Breaking
Dry weather braking under normal riding conditions was rather impressive (using SwissStop Black Prince pads). In particular, modulation rivals most run of the mill alloy clinchers. Despite the fairly good modulation, breaking feels slightly spongier than alloy clinchers and requires a larger handful of the leavers to stop within the same distance. On occasion, hard sustained breaking induces a bit of screaming from the rim (maybe I need to toe in the pads more).
I do not have a great deal of experience riding these wheels in the wet. However, I conclude that the best option is to not ride these wheels in inclement weather. Put simply, riding in traffic is not safe. At a guess, it takes around triple the distance to come to a stop as it does in dry weather. As such, emergency breaking is out the window. If you’re racing on a non technical course, then knock yourself out.

All up, these slight sacrifices are not too bad, you just simply need to change your braking habits i.e. hit the brakes earlier.

The good
- Low weight improves handling precision and provides a buoyant sensation to the ride – with a stiff, responsive frame, your bike feels like a rocket ship
- Amazing acceleration out of the saddle
- Low rolling inertia makes for a very good climbing wheelset (though my times up black mountain were faster with Bora’s)

The not so good
- The rim profile is antiquated and noticeably less aero than the competition
- The hubs are inferior and require ongoing maintenance
- Ride quality is wooden and slightly dull
- Extreme vertical rigidity significantly increases harshness
- Unrepairable in the event of a crash
- Price

Rating: 6.5/10

Recommendations
Given the quality of the hubs and the effect they have on the perception of speed as well as the road feel of the ‘un-aero’ v-shaped rims, I cannot recommend these wheels. Put simply the competition are better. If you were a 80kg+ rider, then the stiffness in these rims may be of such value as to override the wheels other limitations. However, for lighter riders, the extreme stiffness makes for a wooden if overly harsh ride quality. Having said that, the sensation of a super light, nimble bike that instantaneously responds to initial input is an addictive sensation. As such, this wheelset is a paradox in that concurrently fantastic and inferior at the same time. Again, wide tubs or a less racy frame might help with the harshness.

Review Limitations
No single review can ever fully articulate how a product will perform for every kind of rider. As such, it is worth noting a few limitations of this review. First, I did not test this wheelset on different framesets. Some wheelsets really compliment a frames ride quality whereas others mask or inhibit them. It’s conceivable that some of my opinions would change had I ridden them on a different frameset. Second, I am a light guy. What induces jarring stiffness for me is possibly perfectly stiff for someone maybe 10-20kg heavier. Third, I have relatively limited experience with tubular wheelsets. Finally, I did not put a huge number of kms on the wheels (~700km).

Image

Image
Last edited by zappafile123 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

-zappa I enjoyed reading that, and as a former CCU owner agree with much of it, including something you put very well:

"On the one hand, due to the low weight and the stiffness, the wheels initially feel very fast, but then once they are rolling along, they feel comparatively slow"

Ultimately CCUs have been ridden to success over many years and can't be at a significant disadvantage, though like you, I always felt they were slower than other high end wheelsets I've had in part down the hubs, and in part the relatively unaero design

One thing I'd disagree on a bit is with your comments on ride quality. CCUs IME have a sublime ride quality with the full carbon construction soaking up far more road harshness than say Boras ... they just roll through anything without drama
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



MiddMan
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

zappafile123 Thank you for this most thorough review! I similarly recall hearing that they have a rather narrow rim profile (something like 19mm or so) which doesn't fit so well with 23 or 25mm tires. The thing I like is Mavic's alloy rim bed beneath the carbon which is meant to make for easier braking. I'm thinking I'll probably still wait till they come out with something a few millimeters wider, because the extra braking power would be really important for me in my mountainous area. Once again, excellent review!

IchDien
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 am
Location: Veneto

by IchDien

Excellent review.

RyanH
Moderator
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

by RyanH

I found them particularly harsh as well when I swapped front wheels with a teammate of mine. On the other hand, I would love to take them out for a crit as they were amazingly stiff, even when leaning over the bars grinding it out slowly.

User avatar
showdown
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:48 pm

by showdown

I'll hopefully be able to add to the review and fill in some of the blanks...

Cat 2 racer, 140 lbs, Colnago C60, Dura-Ace Di2, Continental Competition Tubulars 25mm (90psi front/100psi rear on dry - 80/80 on wet)

I have raced these wheels for two years now and many times in the rain during various events including on open road races and very technical criteriums (10-corner 2.1km course).

During the road races where braking is infrequent these wheels performed predictably and reliability with no issue and felt much like any other wheel on which I've raced.

During the technical criterium (it was 40 decrees fahrenheit, pouring rain with 20-30mph wind gusts) there was an incredible amount of braking and sprinting out of corners. The braking (I have used Reynolds Blue and Black Prince and find the Black Prince superior, but only just) was, as expected highly affected. The preferred braking technique (brake late and hard as opposed to a long feathering) was all but impossible as the build up of road grime and water required the "wiping" of the rims with the pads before the actual braking could begin in much the same way that some cars (like my VW) have devices to clear the water from the rotor surface before the calipers depress the pads. That is, on approach to the corner, perhaps 20-30 meters before the turn the brake is depressed ever so slightly so that it just makes contact and clears the debris and water from the surface of the rim without actually stopping the bike. This is done while pedaling so that any speed that is potentially lost during the "wiping" is compensated for. Then braking can be performed similarly to when in dry conditions with the caveat that the force required is significantly higher. That said, once the rim is sufficiently clean and dry the braking can catch and the rider can find themselves suddenly stopping more rapidly though not so fast that an endo or crash is possible.

Given the diminished braking quality in the wet the CCU's more than make up for it coming out of the corners where sprinting back up to speed is required. As the previous reviewer commented- the transfer of power is immediate and regaining the lost speed is instant and costs less watts than with other wheels including lightweight offerings.

Ultimately there is nothing wrong with these wheels in the wet and it's more an issue of braking technique needing to be adjusted and the rider understanding the limitations and changing paradigm of racing on carbon in the wet. My recommendation for anyone looking to race these wheels in the wet is to take them out in the wet prior to race day and get acclimated to the wheels so that there are no surprises at 30mph in a declining radius turn.

I love these wheels and will continue to race the hell out of them as long as I can- wet or dry, I just prefer dry :wink:

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

21mm (anything) or Tufo are not proper tires for testing...

User avatar
zappafile123
Posts: 656
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

kgt wrote:21mm (anything) or Tufo are not proper tires for testing...



Shock horror.... the Tufo rode nicer than the Vittoria KS! I havent ridden wider than 21mm :roll:
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

my reply:
viewtopic.php?f=113&t=132207&start=15

Please, don't get me wrong. I absolutely appreciate your effort. I really think posts like yours are the best reviews one can find online. We need more of them actually.

OTOH I have to stress the fact that one cannot judge the performance of a wheelset in terms of comfort using a 21mm tire. No one uses 21mm tires nowadays. Moreover Tufo are arguably among the worst riding tires available. Wooden feeling, no road feedback... again, not a choice to help you make conclusions about the wheelset.

User avatar
zappafile123
Posts: 656
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

kgt wrote:my reply:
OTOH I have to stress the fact that one cannot judge the performance of a wheelset in terms of comfort using a 21mm tire. No one uses 21mm tires nowadays. Moreover Tufo are arguably among the worst riding tires available. Wooden feeling, no road feedback... again, not a choice to help you make conclusions about the wheelset.


I had seen some really old posts on this forum about tufo being crap, but then on wiggle all the most recent reviews have been all positive. When I received the wheels, there was a butt-load of sealant in both the front and rear. Strangely, they almost felt like clinchers in that the wheels didnt have that supple feeling you only get with a set of good tubular tires. When I replaced the rear with the tufo S3-lite, honestly, there was an improvement in road feel over the Vittoria - felt like a tub on the rear again. I blame the the excess sealant for this.

I still have the wheels so technically I could re-do the test with some wider tires. It is an appealing idea... maybe I'd like them more (though my only real gripe against them is the hubs not so much the comfort). On the other hand I'm trying to sell them so I dont really want to throw money away but putting new tires on a wheelset thats about to leave.

What are your go to tubs? I am not a big fan of Vittoria Corsa Evos because they are not very puncture resistant and I've had a couple of bad experiences losing grip in the wet.

Ktg, my next wheelset is going to be either a set of Fulcrum racing speed XLRs, Hed Stinger 4's or possssibly some Enve 1.45s with tune hubs. Not sure which to go for... the Heds seem a bit boring, but I know they will be pretty good.

Also, I might expand on the review shortly. I have a Scapin Dyesys S8 arriving next week hopefully so I can see how they feel on a steel bike :beerchug:
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

I have tried tubulars from Veloflex (23mm), Vredestein (21-23mm), Challenge (23-25mm), Vittoria (20-23mm), Continental (22-25mm)... During the last months I use Continental sprinter gatorskins 25mm. Their ride is far from a good tubular's ride but their resistance to cuts is top. 25mm also helps as well to a more descent ride quality.

For your next wheelset I'd suggest Fulcrum racing speed XLRs.
Waiting for your next review!

BlackMadone
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:12 pm

by BlackMadone

Zappa when should we expect the review on the Oltre?

User avatar
zappafile123
Posts: 656
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

BlackMadone wrote:Zappa when should we expect the review on the Oltre?


I'll aim for the next few weeks. I'll start writing at the end of next week when I can start riding it again (away at the minute). Its harder to write reviews for things you like :?

On that note, the plan now is to write reviews for all my new kit. For the rest of this year I will get another wheelset, and a partial 2015 SR groupset (everything except the chain, cassette and crankset). Looking forward to writing a real comparative review of campy vs. dura-ace.
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3

kim
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:47 am

by kim

great review

thank you

User avatar
zappafile123
Posts: 656
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

Got a new bike to try the wheels on :)

Image
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply