NEW AERO v LIGHT WEIGHT Bike or combine the 2?

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ardennes777
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:45 pm
Location: Liege Belgium

by ardennes777

Ok so here goes another one of these discussions; hopefully with a bit more "science" involved behind it for all you enthusiasts!

There is a whole lot of discussions on forums/Youtube (GCN) and other pages regarding the whole "AERO v LIGHT" debate.

This has played a huge factor in deciding my new bike and build.

I am concerned about getting the "perfect" all round setup on the one bike!

My riding typically works on a 3:1 ratio that is 3 hill rides for 1 dead flat easy spin ride (by dead flat i mean laps of a dead flat 6km road).
To work out an average of elevation relative to kms I would say each of my hill rides encompasses 1500m of climbing per 60km of riding (i.e. an 120km ride would see 3000m of elevation)

Factors taken into consideration is that a lot of the climbs I do can be categorised into the following grades and lengths:
Hills that average 20%> are less than 300m long
Hills that have 30%> pinches are less than 100m long
Hills that average 11%-13% are less than 3km long
Hills that average 10% and below are less than 10km long.

The question therefore is based on the riding I do and climbs would it be better to go down the :
- Full Aero Bike with Aero Wheel option.
- Full Aero Bike with Mid-Light weight wheel option
- Lightweight "Climbing" Bike with Aero-Wheel option
- Lightweight "Climbing" Bike with Mid-Light weight wheel option.

Contingent on which option above best suits, I have listed the handful of frames I am looking at. All frames will be built up with either "SRAM RED 22" or "2015 SUPERRECORD". Components will be either carbon offering from ZIPP or DEDA. Wheels will depend on what size is suggested above, but most likely either from "ENVE" "CAMPAGNOLO" "ZIPP" or REYNOLDS"

- CERVELO S5 / CERVELO R5
- SWIFT ULTRAVOX TI
- CIPOLLINI RB1K / CIPOLLINI BOND
- WILIER CENTOUNO AIR / CENTO UNO SR
- RIDLEY HELIUM SL / NOAH FAST
- PINARELLO DOGMA F8
- CANNONDALE SUPERSIX EVO HI MOD
- SCOTT ADDICT TEAM ISSUE/ SL

Relative to all the discussions/articles on-line I find they do not take "super steep hills" into consideration; they only take the alleged "tipping point" of 5% OR give a distance and elevation gain without a breakup as how steep the hills were (i.e. VELO TEST) as an example but don't provide information relative to hill distances/lengths etc.


I AM therefore seeking your help in answering my question relative to the above info I have provided.

arthurf
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:13 pm

by arthurf

Are most of the climbs you do short and steep or are they longer, more sustained climbs or an even split of both? Flat sections in between climbs or just up and down?

Personally I would go for one of the newer breed of lightweight frames with aero tubing, the Cervelo R5 or Scott Addict, then you get the best of both worlds. The Ridley Noah SL may be better for your needs than the Noah Fast although I'm not sure when/if they are available, again a lightweight frame with aero tubing. Usually these have enough stiffness for the short steep climbs yet still offer some aero benefit on the longer, shallower climbs or flats and won't leave you feeling totally beatenup having ridden it all day!

I've ridden an older R5 and thought it was really nice, a great climber and very comfortable. The Addict is a bit stiffer and slightly less comfy but feels more direct when you really push it. Can't really comment on the other bikes as I've not ridden any of them but a very nice list to choose from.

There are a few new releases due within the next few weeks, the new Foil, Venge and Madone, may be worth waiting a bit and seeing what the new offerings are like. Likely to be very aero and at a decent weight with a bit more comfort than previous iterations.

You can't really go wrong with wheels from any of those manufacturers. Zipp always get a battering for their hubs but I've had a set with the v9 hubs for 12 months and they have been faultless. I love the new Bora's though, I am very tempted by a set of the 35's.

by Weenie


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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Do you like all of these frames the same?!
No need to say that a great ride is all about how you fit/feel on the frame. Now, according to your type of riding and among the frames you listed (in random order):

CIPOLLINI BOND
PINARELLO DOGMA F8
WILIER CENTO UNO SR
CANNONDALE SUPERSIX EVO HI MOD
SCOTT ADDICT

There are many other options as well of course from... COLNAGO, TIME, BIANCHI, DE ROSA, LOOK, BMC etc. etc.

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

For your riding I'd get a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX, though of those you've listed I'd go for the Canondale - geometry permitting.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

istigatrice
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Location: Australia

by istigatrice

I really rate the Swift Ultravox, the bike climbs really really well (even though the frame weight is a little high) and is superb over rougher roads and longer distances. If it were my money I'd get an Ultravox with mid section wheels (eg Zipp 303 or enve 45)
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)

davidalone
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:27 pm

by davidalone

With that kind of build kit and budget you can get a bike which is both AERO and LIGHT... of course no aero you can get even lighter.... but not by alot and the difference is not too much that you would really notice it. I would go the most aero with least weight you can.

the Noah SL, dogma F8, willier cento uno air do ft the bill rather nicely, other bkes not in your list might be the canyon aeroad, Cervelo S3 (prefer it to the S5) and trek madone

chayanat
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:09 pm

by chayanat

I'll go with - Lightweight "Climbing" Bike with Mid-Light weight wheel option.
Wait for new 2016 tcr?

Marin
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Get a light frame with an aero drop bar and 50mm U-shape wheels, make sure the fork is aerodynamic, and build it up as light as you need it. The frame doesn't really matter that much aero-wise.

Grill
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:12 pm
Location: Oop North

by Grill

kgt wrote:Do you like all of these frames the same?!
No need to say that a great ride is all about how you fit/feel on the frame. Now, according to your type of riding and among the frames you listed (in random order):

CIPOLLINI BOND
PINARELLO DOGMA F8
WILIER CENTO UNO SR
CANNONDALE SUPERSIX EVO HI MOD
SCOTT ADDICT

There are many other options as well of course from... COLNAGO, TIME, BIANCHI, DE ROSA, LOOK, BMC etc. etc.


But the Bond is neither aero nor light...

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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

...It is not light but we don't know whether it is aero or not. It has aero tubes, someone has to get it in the wind tunnel I guess...
Anyway I put it in the list because ardennes777 had it and because it is a very nice all round, do everything well frame. It feels great when climbing (because of its very stiff bb) and it is also designed to go fast because it gets your body on a low-aero position (long toptube-small headtube).

Wilier is not aero neither light. Pinarello is not light and I doubt it is that aero. OTOH both are top frames.

BTW do you have anything to contribute? What's your suggestion?
Last edited by kgt on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Ax Lightness Vial EVO D for light frame with excellent comfort.
Ax uses tight tolerances, so i would seriously buy their seatpost to.
For the rest, pick wheels and cockpit of your own liking.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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Mario Jr.
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

by Mario Jr.

I would wote for the Ridley Noah SL. Very stiff and quite light and with a lot of aero features implemented.

kode54
Posts: 3748
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

wheelsONfire wrote:Ax Lightness Vial EVO D for light frame with excellent comfort.
Ax uses tight tolerances, so i would seriously buy their seatpost to.
For the rest, pick wheels and cockpit of your own liking.


with the Enve SES 4.5, it helps the light Vial EVO. had 3.4 on it, but the 4.5 is so much better at higher speeds. also have Enve SES Aero Road bar on it and tried to make it more aero.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

Grill
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:12 pm
Location: Oop North

by Grill

kgt wrote:...It is not light but we don't know whether it is aero or not. It has aero tubes, someone has to get it in the wind tunnel I guess...
Anyway I put it in the list because ardennes777 had it and because it is a very nice all round, do everything well frame. It feels great when climbing (because of it's very stiff bb) and it is also designed to go fast because it gets your body on a low-aero position (long toptube-small headtube).

Wilier is not aero neither light. Pinarello is not light and I doubt it is that aero. OTOH both are top frames.

BTW do you have anything to contribute? What's your suggestion?


The Bond is the only frame over a kilo on that list. If you're going to go that heavy may as well either A) got something special like a custom steel build or B) go properly aero.

If the OP doesn't race then aero isn't a big deal. What is important is how the bike makes him feel. Based on this he should be the one with the prettiest paint job.

by Weenie


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KarlC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: De Portola Wine Trail Temecula CA

by KarlC

Most NEW Aero frames are not to bad for weight, stiff enuf to be good climbers and still very comfortable, so pick one that you like and that fits right. Then the key would be adding light weight Aero parts to get the weight you want.

From my very little experience, your motor and the bike will make a bigger difference than a few 100 grams ever could. My BMC TMR01 is about 400 grams heaver that my Scott CR1 but I am faster on the BMC TMR01 on all rides and I love it.
C64 My Sixty 4 SR EPS 12

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