SRAM XG-1190 cassette Shifting issues

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taylorpetie
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by taylorpetie

Hi. Recently upgraded to all SRAM Red22 components, but have run into an annoying issue.

The XG1190 has shifting problems on the smallest 3 cogs that no amount of adjusting will correct. In other words, problems up shifting. I can eventually make it upshift if I increase the tension of the rear dérailleur but doing this will cause chain rub at the middle to larger cogs. I've checked to make sure the rear dérailleur hanger is straight.

I've swapped out the XG1190 11-32 cassette to an Ultegra 11-32 cassette and the problem goes away (everything is quiet and shifts perfectly on the SRAM Red 22 components). I thought I may have a defective xg1190 cassette and replaced it with another one, but still the same problem. Has anyone ran into this and if so any resolution?

I've chatted with SRAM and they stated that I may have another 'defective' cassette and to replace it under warranty. I can't have that much bad luck to have two defective xg1190 cassette? Thoughts? Thanks.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

1. Is your chain new, the correct length, and is it the Red 22 chain? I also assume the cassette is new.
2. Also double check your b-screw adjustment (although that shouldn't have too much effect on the smaller cogs).
3. Check also the rear dropouts are aligned (LBS should have a special tool for this).
4. Is the derailleur hanger is properly fastened?
5. Make sure rear hub and freebody are in good condition.

I hadn't heard that any of the 1190 cassettes were defective although my experience is limited to 11-28 and smaller.

It's funny - I had the same problem on one of my Shimano equipped bikes so I got fed up and switched everything over to Sram. I ended up concluding that the derailleur cage was twisted from mis-use by a stupid brother-in-law.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

taylorpetie
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by taylorpetie

Hi. Thanks for the suggestions.

1. Yes, chain is new and it's Red 22 (for chain length, I used the big cog to big chainring plus 2)
2. b srew is adjusted so that the rear dérailleur has 6mm spacing to the largest cog
3. Rear drop outs are aligned. I have the tools to check that it's aligned
4. Hanger is tightened
5. Wheels/rear hub are brand new enve 3.4

The only thing that isn't SRAM is the S works crank with Praxis chain rings (and of course the bike frame). I don't think this would cause the issue would it? But then again, if I swap out the xg1190 cassette for Ultegra, it works fine. :(



Mr.Gib wrote:1. Is your chain new, the correct length, and is it the Red 22 chain? I also assume the cassette is new.
2. Also double check your b-screw adjustment (although that shouldn't have too much effect on the smaller cogs).
3. Check also the rear dropouts are aligned (LBS should have a special tool for this).
4. Is the derailleur hanger is properly fastened?
5. Make sure rear hub and freebody are in good condition.

I hadn't heard that any of the 1190 cassettes were defective although my experience is limited to 11-28 and smaller.

It's funny - I had the same problem on one of my Shimano equipped bikes so I got fed up and switched everything over to Sram. I ended up concluding that the derailleur cage was twisted from mis-use by a stupid brother-in-law.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Sorry I am stumped here. Interesting that the ultegra cassette runs clean. It could just be that it is more forgiving or whatever is off in your setup happens to work with the Shimano design.

From time to time I have had rear shifting that behaved as if the indexing was slightly off. So I had to choose between perfect tuning for the bigger cogs or smaller cogs. I had to choose between shifting that would hesitate going up or hang coming down. It would usually come down to some issue like limit screws, cable tension etc. and could be fixed. So be sure to check those. Release the RD cable and start the setup from scratch - see a Sram tech video to confirm process. In fact double check the cable and cable housing. If the stuff is old or low quality than replace. I never thought the Sram stock cable housing was acceptable. Yokozuna is the way to go, a bitch to work with though.

Another thing to look at is to make sure that the cable is pinched properly by the pinch bold on the RD. There is a little notch that the cable should sit in and it should be wrapped just right. And there is a tab on the washer that needs to be in the correct spot. I have seen cables pinch on the wrong side of the washer.

When you get this fixed be sure to post back and let us know what the heck was wrong. Maybe it is a defective cassette.

As a side note - the Red 22 chainrings provide awesome front shifting - superior to Praxis IMO.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

taylorpetie
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by taylorpetie

I'll start from scratch but it seems that the xg1190 cassette is a bit taller than the Ultegra cassette (around 2mm taller).

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Taller? Like the teeth on the cogs are longer?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

My 1190 11-30 shifts slightly better then my 1190 11-28. no noise on my 11-30. My 11-28 will make a very slight noise in the 13 or 22 depending on how it's adjusted. (running 9070 Di2 with a KMC SL11 chain).
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taylorpetie
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by taylorpetie

If you lay both cassettes on the table, the XG1190 11-32 is slightly taller -- no more than 2mm -- than the Ultegra 11-32 cassette (i.e. the total stack height). That would probably explain why the ultegra cassette upshifts fine at the smaller cogs.

Will try recabling/reinstalling all components.

Mr.Gib wrote:Taller? Like the teeth on the cogs are longer?

nickcube
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by nickcube

And remember the cogs/spacers compress on the ultegra cassette when squished by the locknut, which makes the 1190 quite wide. Might sound very silly to say but have you checked the ultegra cassette is 11sp? Just double checking :thumbup:

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

The different cassette widths is odd. There maybe some differences in the cassette material behind the 32 cog where it mates with the freebody or perhaps at the locknut end. If this has an effect on how tall they stand when placed on a table it is irrelevant. What would matter more is if the spacing is different so that the cogs do not all line up with each other between the two cassettes. They are suppose to be the same spacing aren't they?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

taylorpetie wrote:I'll start from scratch but it seems that the xg1190 cassette is a bit taller than the Ultegra cassette (around 2mm taller).


This has been reported before, you are not alone.
There is a thread mentioning that the DA cassette cracks aso. There are several guys who uses XG-1190 instead, but one of the guys claims just same as you, it shifts worse due to the extra width.
I have also used an Edco cassette, it proved much more picky than Shimano DA cassette. It reacted more so to frames chainline than Shimano does.
Shimano shift flawless on two different frames, Edco did not.
So i believe you are correct that the width may have an effect here. I even asked due to this, if Di2 RD could be "tuned" in throwlength between gears.
We all know mechanical can't be, but i was told Di2 did not have this feature either.

But you may experience same as me, it is probably not you who tune your gears worse, it may be the chainline on your frame which differs just slightly and that have an effect as you may experience.
Again, i have two frames and i certainly note a difference (not with Shimano cassette though!)
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Tenlegs
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by Tenlegs

This is a bit puzzling, we've been swapping between SRAM/Shimano & Campagnolo 11 speed cassettes and wheels for some time now without any problems,
Theres not much difference in height between any of them, certainly not 2mm, never heard that before,
I just swapped cassettes on my wife's bike - SRAM 1190 to Ultegra and measured the height of them along with a Campag cassette,
Taken an average using calipers on a flat plate, also put the Campag cassette in a vice and squeezed it to see if clamping made a difference but at the most it measured only 0.1mm smaller
Ultegra uses metal spacers V Campags plastic spacers these didn't compress either.
0.7mm max difference and the 0.4mm between SRAM-Ult spread out over 11 cogs is not likely to make much if any difference in indexing, all three have been used on Campag & Shimano groups with no issues.

Measured overall height
Campag Chorus - 40.5mm
SRAM 1190 - 40.2mm
Ultegra - 39.8mm

Image SRAM on the left
ImageClockwise fron top SRAM,Shimano,Campag

Edit
Went over the campag cogs and spacers individually with a micrometer added them all together and got 40.25mm-40.35mm (clusters not totally parallel) so, close enough to the caliper measurement I think.

MNX1024
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by MNX1024

I have this same exact issue with my XG-1090...... People keep pointing to my cables and housing. Until I spent so much money replacing other parts and an entire season to trouble shoot it, it turned out that the spacing between the largest too cog was too big...... The amount of money I spent could've bought me two XG-1090........

topflightpro
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by topflightpro

I've found that for Sram 10-spd cassettes, I need to adjust the high limit a bit so that the derailleur lines up just outside the small cog. I am not sure why that is, as I do not need to do that for Shimano cassettes, but since I figured that out, all my Sram cassettes shift much better.

The difference in height that others mentioned could be the reason for this.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

topflightpro wrote:I've found that for Sram 10-spd cassettes, I need to adjust the high limit a bit so that the derailleur lines up just outside the small cog.


IIRC this is what Sram indicates in their setup video.

Also as for cassette width, the measurement should be from the center of the teeth on the largest cog to the center of the teeth on the smallest cog - this will be the effective width/spacing. Just stacking them on a flat surface may not tell the story.

FWIW I have 1190 and 1090 cassettes on two different bikes the are both the quietest, best shifting setups I've ever had. I have also run these same setups with Shimano Ultegra cassettes (and appropriate chains) which has also worked just fine but I preferred the performance of the Sram cassettes with the Sram chain for both shifting and weight reduction.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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