Aero Road Bikes are BS

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

jano
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm

by jano

People seem to believe only the marketing used to sell them their current bike.

You can't make a physicist out of a dentist/banker, nor tell him that they paid 10.000+ $€ for a bike which is essentially not going to make him much faster then one worth 4.000, and that the best bang for the buck is training your legs and working on your flexibility to be able to get your body (the most non-aerodynamic piece on that bike) to ride in a more aerodynamic position.

Bespoke aerodynamic bikes give real advantages, the current 'aero' road bikes much less.

Anyway, don't let my comments derail the daydreaming.
Last edited by jano on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Is there anyone of you guys who have used for instance an S5 and an R5, riding same distance and used a power meter?
There are lots of different arguements why some prefer an aero bike and some do not.

I asked the guys who sells Cervelo here, most of them says they prefer R5 over S5 since it ride better.
The further we discussed they made clear that the aero bikes is not what most buy and talk of ride feel or handling.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

justkeepedaling
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

by justkeepedaling

And yet the bike that the whole MTN-Qhubeka team is riding is...

User avatar
53x12
Posts: 3708
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Location: On the bike

by 53x12

wheelsONfire wrote:Is there anyone of you guys who have used for instance an S5 and an R5, riding same distance and used a power meter?
There are lots of different arguements why some prefer an aero bike and some do not.

I asked the guys who sells Cervelo here, most of them says they prefer R5 over S5 since it ride better.
The further we discussed they made clear that the aero bikes is not what most buy and talk of ride feel or handling.


And yet, if you did a blinded test with the same builds, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a R vs S series. You want comfort, look at the wheels, tires, tire pressure, saddle, bibs...etc.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1926
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

fromtrektocolnago wrote:It comes down to a simple fact. Most of us go on rides where we average well under 17 miles per hour, probably close to 15 mph on longer rides.


I think you posted on the wrong forum, this is weightweenies, not Roadbikereview.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

53x12 wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:Is there anyone of you guys who have used for instance an S5 and an R5, riding same distance and used a power meter?
There are lots of different arguements why some prefer an aero bike and some do not.

I asked the guys who sells Cervelo here, most of them says they prefer R5 over S5 since it ride better.
The further we discussed they made clear that the aero bikes is not what most buy and talk of ride feel or handling.


And yet, if you did a blinded test with the same builds, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a R vs S series. You want comfort, look at the wheels, tires, tire pressure, saddle, bibs...etc.


I could almost agree. My ti frame is not like the Foil, and Vial EVO is certainly not close to Foil in ride feel.
I can honestly say, it is very different.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

User avatar
53x12
Posts: 3708
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Location: On the bike

by 53x12

wheelsONfire wrote:
53x12 wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:Is there anyone of you guys who have used for instance an S5 and an R5, riding same distance and used a power meter?
There are lots of different arguements why some prefer an aero bike and some do not.

I asked the guys who sells Cervelo here, most of them says they prefer R5 over S5 since it ride better.
The further we discussed they made clear that the aero bikes is not what most buy and talk of ride feel or handling.


And yet, if you did a blinded test with the same builds, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a R vs S series. You want comfort, look at the wheels, tires, tire pressure, saddle, bibs...etc.


I could almost agree. My ti frame is not like the Foil, and Vial EVO is certainly not close to Foil in ride feel.
I can honestly say, it is very different.



Different geometries. Different frame materials (Ti vs carbon).
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

jano
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm

by jano

It's not that simple.
Not all carbon is equal, and even if you use the very same carbon fiber sheet, ultimately the layup configuration will have the biggest influence on the final characteristics.
CF has the huge advantage that you can use it to produce parts with an-isotropic mechanical properties. You can have the same ride characteristics for different geometries. However without the proper knowledge some will create CF frames parts which are basically just a blob of CF and resin. Meanwhile, those with the knowledge will create impressively light yet stiff and comfortable frames and forks. It's all about details that the end customer can not see, but they are there.
Last edited by jano on Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rchung
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:01 am

by rchung

53x12 wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:Is there anyone of you guys who have used for instance an S5 and an R5, riding same distance and used a power meter?

And yet, if you did a blinded test with the same builds, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a R vs S series. You want comfort, look at the wheels, tires, tire pressure, saddle, bibs...etc.

Sort of like this test.

jano
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm

by jano

LOL, that looks funny! I wonder if he can enjoy the riding like that.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

rchung wrote:
53x12 wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:Is there anyone of you guys who have used for instance an S5 and an R5, riding same distance and used a power meter?

And yet, if you did a blinded test with the same builds, most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a R vs S series. You want comfort, look at the wheels, tires, tire pressure, saddle, bibs...etc.

Sort of like this test.


Sure, we can all buy the cheapest frame or just buy Asian knock offs...

Ride a Vial EVO and compare it to Scott Foil and say you don't feel any difference!

Then come back to me :wink:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Dodger747
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:44 pm
Location: Belgium

by Dodger747

Butcher wrote:
fromtrektocolnago wrote:It comes down to a simple fact. Most of us go on rides where we average well under 17 miles per hour, probably close to 15 mph on longer rides.


I think you posted on the wrong forum, this is weightweenies, not Roadbikereview.


:lol: :lol:

Maybe he lives in the Alps...?
VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
W/kg - 4.9

MarkTwain
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm

by MarkTwain

Tapeworm wrote:This thread is hilarious. Facts and figures vs speculation and "appeal to authority".

For those that "doubt" the efficacy of field testing - have a look at the latest Trek white paper. The AlphaMantis tech is awesome for "real world" aero testing. And having used the system myself it is amazing how even small things matter for aero benefit. The data is clear, belief is not required.

And the ignorance keeps rolling...

wheelsONfire wrote:Ride a Vial EVO and compare it to Scott Foil and say you don't feel any difference!

Then come back to me :wink:

Worst appeal to authority ever? With added smiley to really drive that point home.

jano wrote:Anyway, don't let my comments derail the daydreaming.

I think we all stopped paying attention to you quite a while ago. But don't let that stop you posting.

User avatar
Tapeworm
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am

by Tapeworm

MarkTwain wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:This thread is hilarious. Facts and figures vs speculation and "appeal to authority".

For those that "doubt" the efficacy of field testing - have a look at the latest Trek white paper. The AlphaMantis tech is awesome for "real world" aero testing. And having used the system myself it is amazing how even small things matter for aero benefit. The data is clear, belief is not required.

And the ignorance keeps rolling...


Who's? Mine, or other people's?
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

MarkTwain
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm

by MarkTwain

Certainly not yours Tapeworm.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply