Aero Road Bikes are BS

[kgt]

So facts, science, field testing, chung method, wind tunnels etc. have already proved that aero actually matters but Contador, Landa Meana and Aru stil ride an sworks and not a Venge... An explanation for that?
The usual answer is that these riders and their teams are stubborn, traditionalists, retarded or scientifically illiterate. Any other (serious) answer?

To give a hint:
"We can use different type of tubulars, bearings or even stiffer wheels. These are solutions that over 30-40km can give a slight advantage"
Contador

Any comment on how aero also gives an advantage anywhere...? No.

[sawyer]

So facts, science, field testing, chung method, wind tunnels etc. have already proved that aero actually matters but Contador, Landa Meana and Aru stil ride an sworks and not a Venge... An explanation for that?
The usual answer is that these riders and their teams are stubborn, traditionalists, retarded or scientifically illiterate. Any other (serious) answer?

To give a hint:
"We can use different type of tubulars, bearings or even stiffer wheels. These are solutions that over 30-40km can give a slight advantage"
Contador
Any comment on how aero also gives an advantage anywhere...? No.

KGT, your comments sound a bit angry! Chill out my friend - it's Friday and only a few watts are at stake!

It's a bit mis-leading to single out just a few riders ... they can easily be traded ... look at all the OPL, Movistar and Katusha wins on the Aeroad for example ...

Specifically on Contador he has form on particular likes that aren't necessarily the most theoretically efficient but work for him - famously stubbornly riding 202s despite Zipp saying he'd be faster on 303s.

And that's the point, perhaps he wouldn't be faster on a Venge. If he doesn't like how the bike feels it will annoy him right ... the psychological dimension to equipment choices in huge

This thread is farical in a way, because aero obviously matters a lot in cycling (see time trials for further details) ... it matters less obviously in road racing, and depending on the equipment and rider preferences, it may be inferior to a "traditional" frame/wheels whatever despite any aerodynamic benefits

[ergott]

There's no secret that the specifically the Venge doesn't ride as nice as the Tarmac. That's probably why.

Doesn't mean all aero bikes are less comfortable. Doesn't mean no rider likes the Venge.

[sawyer]

If you want aero and comfortable check out the Aeroad CF SLX

It is really quite astonishing

And that is with a 21mm front (for aeroness without lightbulb )

[ardennes777]

I know for a fact that on a dead pan flat road (7km out and back laps) over 2h I was at a minimum 3kmph on my Scott Foil HMX over my SL4 SWORKS Tarmac.....
I have ridden that road excessively over the past few years in all weather conditions; windy, heat, wet etc....
Even if it was extremely windy I would always be quicker on the Foil then the Tarmac.
Both bikes had the exact same setup on them; down to bar-tape!

My current bike is an Avanti Corsa DR Team (Aero Model)..... Its running full D/Ace 9000 and I have some deep dish (and extremely heavy) ZIPP 60 wheels on it for training.

The majority of hills I ride are broken down into 2 types
- Short sharp <1km and all 12% + (including one which hits 32% for 100m!)
- Long and punchy <8km Average 7% but have sharp 10%+ pinches in them.

Even with the super heavy traning wheels on it; I am still at least 7mins quicker on the Aero Bike than I am on a "Lightweight Bike" on my normal 80km (2100m) loop.
Whilst I may be a tad slower on some of the super steep pinchy climbs, the overall Aero effect the bike gives is what in my opinion makes them a better all round option! It descends quicker and holds momentum more when churning up a 7% climb!

Truth be told I genuinely feel quicker aswell, placebo effect aside..... Battling a strong headwind on the SWORKS Tarmac I had felt like I had a piece of dead lifeless wood under me, whereas on the Avanti the bike feels like it is fighting with me!

If only they built <800g aero frames.....

[sawyer]

If only they built <800g aero frames.....

It will come

Though the tube shaping and surface area may mean always a bit heavier than non-aero frames

[fromtrektocolnago]

If you feel quicker on a frame that weighs 100 grams less than your old one, then you really are a victim of the placebo effect. Frankly I prefer the frame that weights a few ounces more. I ride faster knowing that the frame is built to hold up. On any organized ride that I've been involved in there's no relationship between the guys who ride the lightest or most aero bikes and the guys that ride the climb or descend the fastest. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but bike handling skills, fitness level and leg strength are the only things I've seen that bear out any relation. Of course a bike that doesn't fit well or has improper geometry will hamper a rider.

Bike companies build lighter bikes and aero bikes because they sell. People want to believe there's a short cut to training there isn't. I was on a forum where someone asked about high end wheels and whether he'd be faster on them. The owner of Boyd cycling responded with a fairly honest answer,a negative response, saying that they would only matter at the margin.

[sawyer]

If you feel quicker on a frame that weighs 100 grams less than your old one, then you really are a victim of the placebo effect. Frankly I prefer the frame that weights a few ounces more. I ride faster knowing that the frame is built to hold up. On any organized ride that I've been involved in there's no relationship between the guys who ride the lightest or most aero bikes and the guys that ride the climb or descend the fastest. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but bike handling skills, fitness level and leg strength are the only things I've seen that bear out any relation. Of course a bike that doesn't fit well or has improper geometry will hamper a rider.

Bike companies build lighter bikes and aero bikes because they sell. People want to believe there's a short cut to training there isn't. I was on a forum where someone asked about high end wheels and whether he'd be faster on them. The owner of Boyd cycling responded with a fairly honest answer with a negative response, saying that they would only matter at the margin.

You're right, but why not take the marginal gains from equipment if affordable

For many of us it's time - training time - that is the big limiting factor and about which we can't do much ...

[Svetty]

Using exactly the same logic as the anti-aero proponents I maintain that, all things being equal, a lighter bike is no faster uphill than a heavier one.

Edited for clarity - this is meant ironically! Of course a lighter bike requires less watts to pedal uphill than a heavier one.

[kgt]

@ sawyer

I agree 100% with you. Every pro team manager would tell us the same: the psychological dimension of equipment choice is huge. One is only faster on the frame that 'suits' him. Some are faster on traditional frames others on aero.

I find my post rather cool BTW.

[fromtrektocolnago]

Using exactly the same logic as the anti-aero proponents I maintain that, all things being equal, a lighter bike is no faster uphill than a heavier one.

a little bit faster, but mostly a rounding error. I wouldn't spend a few thousand dollars to purchase a new frame for what is a 3 oz advantage.

[Harmitc]

If you feel quicker on a frame that weighs 100 grams less than your old one, then you really are a victim of the placebo effect. Frankly I prefer the frame that weights a few ounces more. I ride faster knowing that the frame is built to hold up. On any organized ride that I've been involved in there's no relationship between the guys who ride the lightest or most aero bikes and the guys that ride the climb or descend the fastest. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but bike handling skills, fitness level and leg strength are the only things I've seen that bear out any relation. Of course a bike that doesn't fit well or has improper geometry will hamper a rider.

Bike companies build lighter bikes and aero bikes because they sell. People want to believe there's a short cut to training there isn't. I was on a forum where someone asked about high end wheels and whether he'd be faster on them. The owner of Boyd cycling responded with a fairly honest answer,a negative response, saying that they would only matter at the margin.

So true!

[wheelsONfire]

It had been interesting to see what clothes does in terms of aero compared to a frame.
I must admit, i for sure think aero is mostly position and and clothes.
Possibly wheels after that. Anyone that saw that article when they tested drag in disc brakes compared to rim brakes?
It was almost as much drag in disc brakes, as an aero frame saves over a none aero frame.
So let's say we see aero frames with disc brakes, it seems it would equal a none aero frame with rim brakes.
I would deem the comfortable frame as best option and then a resonable position and clothes.
Now, i don't suggest a comfortable frame is either a noodle or having the stack so you sit upright.
I mean a frame that offers comfort as in better ride feel.
This atleast don't kill the fun and the longing to ride more and longer.

[Lieblingsleguan]

So facts, science, field testing, chung method, wind tunnels etc. have already proved that aero actually matters but Contador, Landa Meana and Aru stil ride an sworks and not a Venge... An explanation for that?
The usual answer is that these riders and their teams are stubborn, traditionalists, retarded or scientifically illiterate. Any other (serious) answer?

GC riders spend flat days protected in the bunch, where an aero bike doesn't matter. The only times they are on their own is either uphill, where they need maximum stiffness and a bike very close to the weight limit (Venge is super heavy and for a rather tall rider like Aru would be around 7.3kg), or downhill where they need the best handling.
When doing TTs, they take every little aero gain as well.

[kgt]

Tests have 'proven' that aero is 'faster' even in the bunch, even uphill, everywhere... And Venge is not that heavy in comparison to sworks.
Of course we are discussing road racing and not TT stages.