Run out of patience with tubulars,what clinchers to race on?

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OhPinchy
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by OhPinchy

Thanks boysa. I found the below in my OneNote, which I had pasted in from the glueing tubulars mega thread. Guessing that it's only for a new wheel that multiple coats are needed? So if I'm doing only coat, I guess I make it not too thin and get it on quickly as I need to get the rim and tyre coated in time to get the tyre bedded before the glue starts setting? Is it one of those things where a 2nd coat gives more peace of mind, or is one coat done right enough?

This is the process i have come to the conclusion is as 'official' as i can find (using Vittoria Mastik 1 and Evo CX 320tpi tyres):
- for a brand new wheel, clean the rim with alcohol to remove any oily films that may be on it
- stretch tyres on the wheel for 24 hours minimum, by installing and inflating the tyres to 120psi
- first thin coat of glue on wheel and tyre using a small acid brush to spread
- wait 24 hours
- second thin coat of glue on wheel and tyre
- wait 24 hours
- apply a final layer to the wheel only
- being to mount the (only partially inflated - eg 25psi) tyre to the rim starting from the valve and work your way around evenly on each side until the tyre is completely on the rim
- immediately centre the tyre and once happy the tyre is centred, inflate to 120psi and either ride a few metres to bed the tyre or roll it around with pressure
- leave for 24 hours
- ride

Nicos
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by Nicos

In my experience you need one dry layer on rim and tub, and a new fresh layer on tub or rim (2/3 width) to help with the installation.
Then let it dry with some pressure.

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boysa
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by boysa

OhPinchy,

Your next tubular should always be stretching. I have several that are on old rims, waiting their turn. And yes, Vittoria Mastik. If you're not using Mastik, you're wrong. All of this comes straight from Chip Howat and the work he's done at the University of Kansas. I can't seem to find the file online, but have a copy I can email you if you'd like.

Don't be in a rush. None of this needs to be done quickly, save putting the tire on getting it straight. But still, don't panic. Just put it on, stick some air in it and give it a spin. Wherever it needs to be realigned, do it. Then once it looks good give it a good roll and press the tire on. I use my weight and just roll 1/4 sections at a time. Then inflate. Once you've done it a few times, it really is so simple.

New Rim:
1. Thin coat rim and tire.
2. **24 hours**
3. Thin coat rim
4. **12 hours**
5. Thin coat rim
6. Apply tire
7. **24 hours**
8. Ride

Old Rim
1. Thin coat tire and rim (new glue is "reactivating" the residual glue on the rim)
2. Apply tire
3. **24 hours**
4. Ride
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." William Munny

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boysa
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by boysa

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." William Munny

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Rick
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by Rick

Back in the old days, when me and all my friends were using tubbies, we would always run over and look at the glue job of anyone who rolled a tire in a crit. Invariably it was that Vittoria gutta stuff. We never saw anyone with a problem with Continental, so of course that is what we always used. Then later I noticed that Vittoria also came out with a type that looked like the Conti, sort of translucent gold color.

With Conti glue, I always had the inverse problem: I can't get the damned tires to come off even when I want to!

eric
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by eric

bm0p700f wrote:Yes you can eric you change a tub over in the time it takes to do a tube.

You can. I can't. None of my friends who race on tubulars can do it either.

Sure, I could practice a bunch and possibly learn to do it, but there's no advantage to it. The added weight of a spare tubular vs a tube (200g) negates the weight advantage of a carbon tubular rim over a clincher rim.

ultyguy
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by ultyguy

kgt wrote:Keep your tubulars and try some continental sprinter gatorskins at 25mm.


This. Nukeproof.


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Rick
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by Rick

....and when you fix a clincher on the road, it is the same as new.
Look at the elaborate ceremonies required to glue on a tubular "properly". How confident are you going to be able to ride a tub changed on the road ?

Don't get me wrong; I would admit that tubs are slightly superior in nearly every category. But it is only very slightly, and I have a limited time and money to devote to tire maintenance. :)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Then expain rick why when i have changed a tub at the side of then road and then had no issues with the bond or the tyre moving. I thinkmon bike the rear tyre is the spare the bond is so good. on another bike the spare was a 22mm wide gator skin on a hed rim so obviously that came off when i got home i had to use tyre levers to get it off. So your above comment is based on a lack of experience rick.

When you fix a clincher at the side of the road it is not as good as new. There can be a nice big cut in the tyre and the casing. Try fixing the cut in the casing at the road side.

This thread is going around in circles now, there is no point in it any more.

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boysa
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by boysa

Elaborate ceremonies? I don't know, but it seems pretty simple to me. Apply glue. Stick tire on rim. Ride. Smile. A lot.

Hey, at the end of the day some people will use tubular and some clincher. To each his own.
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." William Munny

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Liggero
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by Liggero

go carbon tubulars, or aluminium clincher. Other options make little sense
Happy Trails !!!

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Rick
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by Rick

bm0p700f wrote:Then expain rick why when i have changed a tub at the side of then road and then had no issues with the bond or the tyre moving.

I can't explain it.
Why is there such an elaborate "proper" way to glue on a tubbie if you can just slap them on in two minutes and they work fine ??

I thinkmon bike the rear tyre is the spare the bond is so good. on another bike the spare was a 22mm wide gator skin on a hed rim so obviously that came off when i got home i had to use tyre levers to get it off. So your above comment is based on a lack of experience rick.

Well....uhh....I've been racing since the time when tubbies were the ONLY option. So I have glued quite a few. But I admit that I always followed the "proper" method, and if I changed one on the road I ended up being pretty careful getting home for the rest of the ride. But maybe I didn't need to be :mrgreen:
When you fix a clincher at the side of the road it is not as good as new. There can be a nice big cut in the tyre and the casing. Try fixing the cut in the casing at the road side.

Well, of course anything can happen. I am talking about typical occurrences. (I do carry a "boot" patch in case I get a casing cut, but I admit that rare situation would not be as good as new. It actually has happened to me twice in the last 40 years.)
This thread is going around in circles now, there is no point in it any more.

No reason for contention. I am just pointing out the reasoning for using clinchers and you obviously feel that tubbies are worth it. That's perfectly OK with me! In fact, I still frequently consider going back to tubbies. I even had a pair with brand new Corsa CX/CGs on them up in my loft for about 20 years. But every time I though about riding on them I just said "nah". They are nice, but I am just not willing to put up with the hassle and expense of a flat. I carried around an inexpensive 'Swallow" for a spare. I don't know if those are still available.

And speaking of repair: what are you doing to repair your tubbies after a flat ? That is another time-sink or send them out to someone who does it. My tubbies were never quite the same after I repaired them but I admit that I have never been very good at stitching.

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de zwarten
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by de zwarten

I have done several rides with an UNGLUED tubular.

You read that right. Rides of 100K. Descents / climbs / curves. Just put the tubular on and ride. No glue. Go figure how fast I can switch a tubular. Before anyone can say "stop - flat tyre", I already changed it. :D

ps: warning: this is by no means a sound advice! And I always did this with Hyperons. Never with e.g. nemesis (those are 'flatter' rims, with less side support for the tubular it seems, compared to most carbon rims in which the tubular lies a little deeper).

victorduraace
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by victorduraace

^me too, just pump up hard and don't corner hard

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ergott
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by ergott

de zwarten wrote:I have done several rides with an UNGLUED tubular.


I don't see how you made this work. Braking will cause the tire to slip on the rim and rip off the valve. I've seen this happen to someone even with a tubular that wasn't glued on well. A few hard braking incidents and rrrriiiipp. Killed the tire and the carbon rim.

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