Millenstein Clincher Schwarz vs Bora Ultra 50 Clincher

[morrisond]

I'm debating these two wheels for my next bike.

Millenstein

Plusses:

Light at 1180 grams for 16/20
Ceramicspeed Bearings
Full Carbon Construction

Negatives

Narrow old Shape
Cartridge Bearings
Reportedly not that round
PITA to fix

Bora

Plusses

Nice Aerodynamic Shape
Easier to Repair
Not that Heavy at 1420 Grams
Should roll extremely well with the CULT Bearings and cone hubs
Braking might be better than LW
Only about 60% of the price of LW's

Negatives

240 grams heavier
Don't look quite as cool

Question - Is the weight difference really enough to be noticeable enough to justify the extra cost?

Are Bora's close enough that they are now the "IT" wheel to have and LW's need to up there game?

Is the braking that much better on Bora's?

[nlouthan]

Bora. 240 grams really isn't noticeable and Campagnolo hubs are super.

The reality though is that either one are a super set of wheels. Neither one is a wrong choice.

[Calnago]

Do you want to use any tires over 23mm, say 25mm even. If so, the wider width of the new Campy Boras should make the choice a no brainer. Hubs are far superior. And the trueness and round of both sets of 2015 Boras I have is unbelievable. I put them in the truing stand and the tolerance both round and true is less than a piece of thin paper, I'd say about 0.1mm.
Then there's the maintenance should something happen. Easy fix with Boras. Might not see your Lightweights for a couple of months. Going to be descending much? Again, Lightweights are notoriously one of the worst wheels for getting blown about. I was surprised at how much better the new Boras seem, compared to the pre 2015 version. Since you're even considering Boras I presume you're running Campy. Nothing suits a campy group better than Boras. Even if they were the same price I would still choose Boras over Lightweights. Sorry if I sound biased but having ridden both, I am. The Lightweights I had for 10 days and they were clinchers, so maybe it wasn't a totally fair comparison since I was on tubulars with the Boras. And as much as I don't get spending that much for a set of wheels and not going with tubulars, ride quality of a clincher setup is much improved with the wider rims, even using the same 23mm tire on both. And the difference is much more noticeable with clinchers than tubulars since the profile of the tire actually changes versus a tubular where the profile is dictated by its enclosed casing. It seems to me that people who buy Lightweights these days do so primarily because they like the look. And maybe a harsher ride. If you really like the look that much, at least wait to see if they're ever going to update that rim profile.

[mrlobber]

Boras all the way. Having ridden Zipps, Enves, Shimano DuraAce, Boras would still be my primary choice over any other wheel, and I'd say even over Lightweights with all their bling factor.
Calnago made a good detailed summary I would totally agree to.

[Lafolie]

It's a good question. I own a pair of Lightweight Millenstein and Gipfelsturm wheels wheels. Not the ceramic hub version, just the standard. I have always like the 'hand-built' thing with Lightweight. The mystique on how they are made and of course the quality. The way the spokes are perfectly laminated into the rim is amazing. Even now, I just love admiring them when not riding. German carbon works of art. Now..do they perform any better or faster then a good set of another brand of wheels......I doubt it. yes....as the title clearly states, they are lightweight ( even the clinchers) but that doesn't make them fast in my book. Of course, so much depends on the engine turning the pedals to generate the wheels. Now....some months ago a bought a pair of Reynolds 58 Aero wheels. I wanted them to go with an aero frame. Hell........they have well and truly opened my eyes. The are heavier than the Lightweight but very fast. Ok, the Lightweight will have the edge on climbing, but as an all round package the Reynolds Aero wheels take some beating. I truly love them. Now...Campag. I have only owned Hyperons, however I found the hugs absolutely fantastic. I worship campag hubs. As smooth as silk. The wheels are easy to maintain and service. Also, to true. The service is great at Lightweight, but you will still need to send them off to get trued in Germany. It's a tough call....but if I'm really really honest, I think the Bora's would be a great buy. Looking at the new 35 and 50 mm...the weight is very light. Easy to service and maintain. Pop a spoke, that can be replaced and those hubs are to die for. Don't get me wrong....I have a deep passion for Lightweight, but if it were my money...I would go Bora. Anyhow...hope I haven't sent you to sleep ! Best wishes

[TonyM]

I was hesitating between the Bora and the Meilenstein but at the end, I went for my C60 with Campy for the Meilenstein 16/20 clincher in the SchwarzED version (with the superb CeramicSpeed bearings).
Excellent wheels!

[Tqubed]

Tony - I'm in the same boat and I'm leaning toward the meilsteins. Are you buying them through your LBS or an online supplier?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harmitc]

I've got Boras and Lightweights. Both great wheels, both have their own strengths. Buy what you want. buy what you like the look of best. With either you won't be disappointed. For me, the Lightweights always feel that little bit special![emoji106]

[MiloAS]

Why are cartridge bearings a negative?

[morrisond]

Why are cartridge bearings a negative?

There is a belief that the Campy and Shimano bearing systems while old school actually roll better and more durable - especially over time.

[kgt]

Common sense say Bora is a better choise. But LWs never were a common sense choise. These are the most iconic wheels of the modern era. A work of art in a way no other wheel is.

[LionelB]

While both these wheelset only make sense in tubular; for an everyday wheelset the Bora wins by quite a margin (I have both).

[Mario Jr.]

The Ceramic Speed bearings are at least as good as the ones in the Boras. In my book, they are better, as the balls and races are matched to each other. No other are doing this. Also, the ceramic balls used in the Ceramic Speed bearings are a class above the competition.
The current Meilenstein are not nearly as cross wind sensitive as the old versions. But that is a fact that the die-hard Campy fans here apparently has difficulties grasping.

[bruno2000]

I have a set of Meilenstein.
Regarding Bora clincher, I should rather take a Bora Ultra 35 to compare to a set of Meilenstein wheels.

[Calnago]

Common sense say Bora is a better choise. But LWs never were a common sense choise. These are the most iconic wheels of the modern era. A work of art in a way no other wheel is.

Hi @kgt: I'm thinking the very reason you are so fond of Lightweights is the very reason I am not. I prefer simple tried and true construction over proprietary non serviceable design. Being "iconic" or "a work of art" is subjective and IMO Boras hit those marks better as well.
Someone asked about the bearings. The cup and cone bearing system is just so very smooth and can be adjusted to an incredibly precise perfection. Cartridge bearings, any cartridge bearing, just gets pressed into the hub shell. You can't adjust them when they begin to wear. You replace them. Cup and cone bearings properly maintained seemed to last forever with no degradation in performance. I've had Ceramic Speed bearings in DT Swiss 190 hubs (essentially the same internals as Lightweights) but nothing I've ever come across spins as nicely as the campy hubs, or has a freewheel that sounds as sweet.