Velocite Syn: prototypes available to buy/test

[firstbuell]

I consider access to this prova frameset to be my very 1st perk for joining WWs, even tho' I'm not a size L

I'm enjoying my 1st-ever month of road bike ownership [2014 Giant Defy Advanced 1],
but am enough of a hardware nut to deeply appreciate what Velocite is offering here

good on ya!

[53x12]

We used TeXtreme for the Magnus, but internally, not on the outside. We may do so again this year. The second generation Velocite Syn prototype that is being tested locally is using something even more exotic. We are using Pyrofil MR70 UD fabric. Mitsubishi tells us that we are the first bike company (and still the only one) to have used this material. It performed well, but it is horrendously expensive so we'll need to find the best way to apply it once the Syn enters mass production.

V.

Looks very nice. Could you talk about the aerodynamic design of the frame. It mentions you use CFD and that you put a lot of time and energy into aero. Did you guys also go to a wind tunnel during the design process? Have you tested the prototype in the wind tunnel and/or field test?

[Tinea Pedis]

V, any aerodynamic reason for the sloping TT?

[53x12]

TP, I can't speak for V but wind tunnel studies have shown that a sloping top tube can work just as well as a horizontal top tube from an aero perspective. Design it such that the wind flows around the tube rather than get caught by it. Cervelo has shown this with the S series.

[vmajor]

@53x12 Thanks! We approached aerodynamics from a scientific point of view. That is, by following the standard procedure of secondary followed by primary research. Among the secondary research I count our body of work ever since we started investing into aerodynamics approximately 4 years ago. This involved collaborative theoretical, simulation and empirical work (aka. wind tunnel time here in Taiwan). For primary research we took advantage of our advanced CFD simulation environment, and validation studies that we performed on well known case studies to ensure that our results match what can be observed in empirical studies (wind tunnel, water tunnel, flow visualization). The 6 months of work on aerodynamics that I mention in the blog post is only that work that is directly related to the Velocite Syn project. The bike has not been in the wind tunnel yet, but there will be no surprises. In fact I am more interested in performing scale model visualization studies just on frame segments in an r&d scale wind tunnel rather than attempt to standardize results in a full scale wind tunnel.

We will do the full scale wind tunnel "test" but mainly for the marketing angle of it as the bike industry has oversold wind tunnel testing as some infallible and irrefutable holy grail of all that is worthy. Wind tunnel has its use, but the actual r&d happens in the lab and with CFD simulations. That has been the case in the aerospace industry ever since the 70's.

What we will do and which will give us more meaningful data is the Robert Chung method. Since the Velocite Geos and the Velocite Syn share the geometry we will be able to do head to head comparisons to isolate frame shape, fittings, wheels and the rider position as contributors to aerodynamic drag. More info here: http://bikeblather.blogspot.tw/2013/08/ ... ethod.html

@Nick. No aerodynamic reason for the sloping TT. It is actually less aerodynamic at very low wind yaw angles than a horizontal TT. The reason for the sloping TT is because the actual intent for the Syn is to be the proverbial superbike (another term of ambiguous meaning). So in a logic tree the aerodynamics tuning decisions went like this: is it more aero? --> does it compromise function? --> prioritize function. So the fork, head tube and the down tube received the most aerodynamic treatment. Top tube less so, but in high yaw it does well aerodynamically.

There is also no aero advantage to the round seatpost, but the comfort that we obtained by sloping the top tube, not having any seat tube extension, and using a round seatpost outweighs the minimal aerodynamic penalty.

Same with the disc brakes - definitively not more aero than aero rim brakes, but they do fit the overall philosophy of the Syn which is to be the one bike for any (predominantly sealed road) fast riding occasion. We will have an aero rim brake version later on this year.

V.

[squidsauce]

We used TeXtreme for the Magnus, but internally, not on the outside. We may do so again this year. The second generation Velocite Syn prototype that is being tested locally is using something even more exotic. We are using Pyrofil MR70 UD fabric. Mitsubishi tells us that we are the first bike company (and still the only one) to have used this material. It performed well, but it is horrendously expensive so we'll need to find the best way to apply it once the Syn enters mass production.

V.

The main reason I'm interested in textreme is because it seems like it can make the frame more durable/resistant to impacts.
Does the Pyrofil MR70 UD fabric also provide the same kind of benefits, or is it being mainly used for the general X% stiffer Y% lighter kind of improvement?
Also please correct me if I'm mistaken about the benefits of using textreme.

[vmajor]

Impact resistance is an out of plane load so the composite structures sees it as shear. Shear stresses are mainly borne by the resin system. I cannot find my notes, but from memory TeXtreme can distribute the impact force to more of the resin due to it being geometrically flatter than non spread tow tape. You would need several layers of TeXtreme to derive this benefit. Bike frames generally only feature one layer.

MR70 is Mitsubishi's answer to the Toray T1100, so it is stiffer, stronger and more uniform than "lesser" carbon fiber.

V.

[53x12]

Whoever did the cable routing should have done a better job.

Wish it came as rim brakes as well for the pre-production test.















The test bike program only includes large frames that’ll come all black. Measurements are:

Seat tube angle: 73 deg
Head tube angle: 73 deg
Top tube length: 570 mm
Head tube length: 175 mm
Frame weight: ~950g bare

[53x12]

^ forgot the link to the above.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/05/22/tes ... r-a-steal/

[vmajor]

The cable routing is one of the focus points for the third generation prototypes. So far the function is great. We achieved excellent shifting performance and easy derailleur cable routing. The location and type of entry and exit points for shift and brake cables/hoses needs some adjustment.

The rim brake version will be available for purchase by the end of the year (hopefully), but we will not be running open testing on them.

V.

[Fixie82]

Curious if people have received these yet?

[vmajor]

The prototype frames have not shipped out yet. They will start shipping shortly. Here is a photo of one of them:

[mattyNorm]

These look great, I'm assuming the fork is asymmetrical to accommodate the disc brakes? Otherwise that is one hell of an out of dish front wheel

[vmajor]

Thanks and no, that photo is of the first generation generation prototype frame that we showed at the Taipei Cycle Show. The fork had an issue, but not that much of an issue - the photo was not taken dead center. From 2nd generation prototype the wheels are centered.

V.

[Fixie82]

Looks great in all black. Can't wait to see some of them built up. With the size of that downtube and BB area it looks like it should be very stiff.