kgt wrote:arthurf wrote:Not everyone is going to agree that Cipollini are the best frames in the world and you have to accept that rather than just belligerently tell them they are an idiot.
Where did I write Cipollini are the 'best frames in the world'? Where did I call someone 'an idiot'? Please...
It is your attitude towards people that post anything negative or that doesn't agree with your impression of Cipollini. You seem to take their comments personally and infer that it is the rider that doesn't understand the bike rather than people just having different opinions.
arthurf wrote:Some of the information presented above is quite relevant and the posters seem to have more knowledge of engineering and composites than you do but you just accuse them of stupidity because their knowledge doesn't reflect how you feel about Cipollini.
Let me claim some engineering knowledge as I am an engineer. In contrast my impression is that some members have absolutely no knowledge of construction and materials.
Now, I have presented very positive tests by serious websites. It seems you pass em by for some reason. But you can search yourself if you wish. Many tests online and offline from magazines all over the world. I have never find, not even one, review that does not admit that Cipollini frames are really special machines.
No, they say that they are what they expect of a top end race bike, not that they are special or groundbreaking in the way that a something like a Factor Vis Vires is. I agree that most reviews of Cipollini bikes are positive but no more so than any top flight bikes from the big manufacturers.
arthurf wrote:We are all naturally biased towards our bike being the best [...] Do I start shooting people down when they say it's stiff and uncomfortable? No.
Again: where did I write Cipollini frames are comfortable? In fact I have written in other threads that RB1000 is so stiff it can be tiring (even some pros find it too aggressive) and that was the main reason I got the BOND which is more comfortable (but still not that comfortable in comparison to my Cento Uno).
No, you miss the point,this remark was not about the comfort of Cipollini frames. I know that the Foil has plenty of faults and I'm willing to accept that and I know that not everyone will like the look or ride of them but it's horses for courses. You on the other hand cannot accept that some people may not agree that Cipollinis are good looking, or light, or stiff but you have to accept that rather than bloody mindedly arguing that they are wrong.
arthurf wrote:I disagree with the "many raving reviews" statement you make. For a company that was launched in 2010, there are comparatively few reviews when compared with bikes launched around the same time such as the Venge and the Foil. I agree that most of those reviews give the bikes glowing feedback but that is usually on the back of a weeks testing rather than living with it for several years.
You have not searched obviously because you can find several. Of course Specialized or Scott or Canyon have more reviews. Big guys-big market shares-many reviews. OTOH there are few De Rosa or Sarto or Colnago or Parlee or... reviews. Does that make them inferior frames?
Wrong again. You claimed that there were loads of reviews of Cipollini frames and from the owners, I merely made the point that there weren't. I spent long enough looking before I bought my RB800. I never claimed that Cipollini were an inferior frame, only that the few reviews that there are are based on a week or two magazine testing and aren't long term.
arthurf wrote:Again, there is little feedback from owners as they are very rare bikes but there are several cases of owners having problems with QC and warranties and Cipollini failing to deal with them. I know of several shops in the UK that will not deal with Cipollini for precisely this reason.
Cipollini after sales may suck. In my experience this is not the case certainly. I may be lucky. But, tell me, what about the hundreds of Scott frames breaking (I have seen one cracking in front of my eyes btw)? Did it matter for your choise? It seems you ride one and you like it. Good for you.
At the end I have ridden both Scott and Cipollini frames. Have tried both? Obviously not.[/quote]
Actually, I have owned both and I know which one I wouldn't buy again. And there aren't records of hundreds of Scott frames breaking but I have certainly read reports of them breaking. The Foil had a well known issue with the seat post when first launched but Scott warrantied all of the frames. Scott have an excellent reputation for their customer service which is more than can be said for Cipollini. I wouldn't be concerned about my Scott breaking as I have the confidence that Scott will honour their warranty and deal with it in an appropriate and timely manner.
This is all I have to say on the matter Kgt and I won't be responding to any further comments you make.
Any by the way Cipollini owners, I believe that Cipollini have issued a recall for all forks due to to a potential issue with them cracking at the steerer tube.