Record or DA?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Cyco
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:49 am

by Cyco

I have never been that impressed with DA durability though it's better than it used to be


When has DA let you down? My 8sp levers had 170,000+km on them when I upgraded to 9sp. The crancks and brakes are still going 10 years on, and will be moved to training parts when I setup the next bike.
Success is how far you you bounce back up after being knocked down

Joel
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:43 pm
Location: Belgium

by Joel

I heard from different mechanics that Record lasts longer than DA. Especially for the BB and shifters.

by Weenie


Francois_Viviers
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:12 pm

by Francois_Viviers

I used Dura ace for 5 years and now on Campy for 2, Dura ace has it's plus points but overall their company mentallity and design principle is wrong. they sell the STI lever on the concept that they are pretty much a dispossable item, how many people have been able to sort out a shifting problem.

I have had to dispose of 2 sets of ACE shifters due to them not chaning properly anymore.

With muy recod it is ussually a case of changing the d springs and you are on your way. Also upgraded one pair of record ergos to 10 speed, by myself the other day, 30 minutes job.

There was no way I could get the shimano shifters back together again, my local pro shop would not touch them.

And to boot Campy kicks shimano's but on the weight stakes

HäddaFahn
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:51 pm

by HäddaFahn

This discussion is pointless guys...


have fun with that one ..

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/drevil.html

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rico
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:49 am
Location: Kingston, the heart of UK weenie-ism

by rico

Whenever I buy a news bike, my LBS always advises I buy DA instead of Record, even though they're long term stockists of both Shimano and Campag. They say this is for reliability reasons - but perhaps it's also about ease of installation from their point of view...

Whatever the case I moved from Chorus 10 (which I loved) to DA9 on a C40 about three years ago. My new C50 is being built up with DA10 after I test rode the new gruppo for a few hours.

Campag shifting is more definite, but the downside is it feels 'clunky'. I always had trouble shifting with ergopower while in the drops - never really felt confortable with it. DA shifting is much better while in the drops. The ergonomics of the levers and hoods is very personal, but nowadays I find Campag hoods just feel too small.

One thing I did notice with DA10 is that bracket definitely feels stiffer than the 9 and much stiffer than what I remember of Chorus. But perhaps there was something else going on. The one thing I don't like about Record is the way they just seem to make more and more of it out of CF without rethinking its fundamental botom bracket/crank weaknesses.

That said, the one area where Campy has always been better IMO is braking. DA brakes always feel "squidgy" compared to Campag. I may specify the black Mavic ones on the C50.

How many times has this been argued about? Truth on both sides...

rico

HäddaFahn
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:51 pm

by HäddaFahn

Ewwww... Shimano on a Colnago...outch.
Anyway....i use the mavic breaks and they are very nice. But i doubt yu gonna have much fun with DA and Mavic combination. Will get uneconomic to get the Wheels out...

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rico
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Location: Kingston, the heart of UK weenie-ism

by rico

Snore! DA on Colnago didn't stop Mapei, Panaria, Rabos or the many other Div 1 squads who rode this combination v succesfully.

You're expressing exactly the kind of blind Campag snobbery that pisses people off. :?

Why will it be "uneconomic to get the wheels out" when using Mavic brakes with DA?

rico

HäddaFahn
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:51 pm

by HäddaFahn

Has nothing to do with success...its about style.

About the Mavic DA combo...THINK ! ! !
I guess yu never got one didnt ya?!?

bobalou
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:05 am

by bobalou

Joel wrote:I heard from different mechanics that Record lasts longer than DA. Especially for the BB and shifters.


I know for certain the Record Chain will last about twice as long as DA. Not sure if that's true for the new 10-speed DA chain, but the others, definitely. And, a stretched chain is what wears cassettes and rings faster then anything else.

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Cyco
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:49 am

by Cyco

I know for certain the Record Chain will last about twice as long as DA.


This must be why almost all my Campag 10 customers use a DA9 chain.....
Success is how far you you bounce back up after being knocked down

bobalou
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:05 am

by bobalou

Cyco wrote:
I know for certain the Record Chain will last about twice as long as DA.


This must be why almost all my Campag 10 customers use a DA9 chain.....


Have no idea why your customers do that. The DA9 chain is certainly cheaper, but no way will it last like a record. I'd rather spend more money for a better (and lighter) chain. The cassette and rings will last longer because the chain stretches less over time. Don't just take my word for it though.

:arrow: http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/art ... 486.0.html

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Cyco
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:49 am

by Cyco

My customers and I would be pretty annoyed with only 6400km (4k miles) of chain life, thats why we use DA chains ;)

I expect 10k+ km of chain life with a decent maintence/ lubing program.

They also consider them to shift better.

There are still 3, of the dozen or so that insist on full campag components and their arguments for the superioty of the Campag parts are the same as yours - Their Campagnolo, they must be better".
Success is how far you you bounce back up after being knocked down

Joel
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:43 pm
Location: Belgium

by Joel

I buy a new chain every 4-5000km. Your cassette and chainrings will last much longer with new chains

bobalou
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:05 am

by bobalou

Cyco wrote:My customers and I would be pretty annoyed with only 6400km (4k miles) of chain life, thats why we use DA chains ;)

I expect 10k+ km of chain life with a decent maintence/ lubing program.

They also consider them to shift better.

There are still 3, of the dozen or so that insist on full campag components and their arguments for the superioty of the Campag parts are the same as yours - Their Campagnolo, they must be better".


I'm not sure who "they" is (as they're not on this board!) but I'm speaking from my own personal experience (and other riders I personally know) and the published word from guys like Lennard Zinn, considered a bike maintenance expert and the paid technical consultant for Velonews.

Chain replacement is a subject that many rider's don't adhere to because they kind of don't have to.

The truth is that you can drive ANY chain longer then it's replacement life. Many riders do because they don't "fix it till it's broke", i.e., the drivetrain will start to make kind of a crackling noise and eventually start to skip. The "skip" point (as you say) is probably around 10k (6k miles). EVERYTHING will have to be replaced, chain, cassette and rings. I've done this (with a DA 9-speed system) so I know it's absolutely true.

Try to put a new chain on a drivetrain after it's recommended replacement limit and it will skip. Ahh, but it will work fine with the chain that it's been running with (probably true for your customers). It's because the chain has stretched and has worn the cogs. At that point the only chain that will work well with that cassette and rings is the one that has stretched because they have worn together.

If the chain is replaced within it's true limits you can get many more of thousands of miles from the cassette and rings then otherwise. So, either replace the chain within it's limits or replace the entire drivetrain ..

And.. to my original point (IMHO), the Record chain has longer limits then DA, about twice as long. This is based on my own personal experience and apparently there are experts that agree.

by Weenie


digger
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:23 pm
Location: UK

by digger

I dont understand. I though if you have campag 10 speed you get a dura-ace chain. Carnt rember the exact reason why but its what you do. And wouldn't replacing chain,cassett,chain rings on a record group set be quite expensive, definitly for me. That why i got ultegra :P .

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