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 Post subject: Record or DA?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:32 pm 
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From the weightweenie perspective, would you choose Record or DA 10 for the new C'dale six13?

Thanks,
andrew


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:13 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Thats a no brainer. For the "true" weight weenie Campy, its around 100g lighter. But to buy a campy over shimano mearly for weight and not preference is ignorant.

Why the hell did I answer this stupid question? :roll:

No offense, but come on.

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 Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:13 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:12 am 
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Superlite.... once again you are totally unhelpful and rude... your arrogance is amazing for someone who is so new to the sport and knows so little about racing/training/or even engineering! where are you getting your undergrad Mech. E. degree? U. Colorado? haha....

either way, the question still stands although obviously i meant from a broader perspective than just weight... anyone can just find the total weights of a groupo...

PS: superlite: you better start losing your fat if you want to be successful at collegiate nationals


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:50 am 
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Location: St. Louis
Why the personal attacks? He answered that the Record Groupo is lighter. Maybe you didn't like the tone of his answer but this is an age old argument that has been played out at least once a week on every cycling board known to man.

I really don't understand your question, what "broader perspective" do you want? Cost- go with DA, exotic materials- go with Record, reliability- either one. But in your original post you wanted the "weightweenies perspective" which Superlight answered that the Record is lighter. :?:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:57 am 
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Location: East Coast USA
Superlite what class are you racing in? I decided to work my way up from Class D i figure in 4 years I can make it to nationals I am on the 5 year Mechanical Engineering plan after I boched last year up. Your season start March 5th?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:36 am 
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Location: Colorado
Thanks M3. By the way, do you own an M3. Thats my dream car. Well, until the new M4 comes out. :D

And Andrew, why the attack on me? I don't even know you, it's your first day on the board. Not a good way to start out. :? You did ask a stupid question to be blunt, sorry. And I did answer it. :lol: Plus your making fun of the shcool I'm attending? What the hell is that about? Thats messed up, and you need to mind you own business. And you comment about UCCS is fruitless anyways. If you knew anything you would know it's one of the best schools in the country for ME. 9th best last time I checked, LAST WEEK.

Quote:
PS: superlite: you better start losing your fat if you want to be successful at collegiate nationals



I need to lose FAT? I need to lose FAT? :roll: HAHAHAHA. HEY EVERYONE! Andrew says I need to lose FAT!! :lol: If you knew me you'd be smacking yourself. Theres a pic of my "super-FAT" body on the site. If anything I need to lose muscle. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... c&start=45

Scroll down to first 2 pics.

Your the one who probley needs to lose a "few" pounds.
:lol:

Petacchi, I'm not familar with class D? You live in the states or Europe? I'm CAT 2. I'm a mechaincal major to, also on the 5 year plan. I'm just taking my sweet time, thats all. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:58 am 
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Posts: 2070
Please keep it on topic, personal attacks are not called for.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: reply
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:45 am 
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"Why the personal attacks? He answered that the Record Groupo is lighter. Maybe you didn't like the tone of his answer but this is an age old argument that has been played out at least once a week on every cycling board known to man. "

Look at superlite's response... he says my question is dumb.. isn't that a personal attack? I responded the way I did because I'm suggesting my question is valid and debatable. In other words, I'm trying to undermine his perspective/judgment about my question being dumb. I'm attacking his credibility...

It is an age-old question... but I thought weightweenies would have a unique perspective... I guess not.

"I really don't understand your question, what "broader perspective" do you want? Cost- go with DA, exotic materials- go with Record, reliability- either one. But in your original post you wanted the "weightweenies perspective" which Superlight answered that the Record is lighter."

A few notes:
1) Surely the weightweenies perspective is more than just weight... reliability, function, durability, comfort, stiffness... you guys quote the German Tour magazine, no? So it's NOT just about lightweight products.
2) DA10 is just as costly as Record...
3) I'm not sure which one is more reliable.
4) I'm not sure which one is more ergonomic/comfortable. (somewhat subjective but one could make a strong subjective argument)

-Andrew


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 Post subject: Reply to Superlite
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:51 am 
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Posts: 108
Thanks M3. By the way, do you own an M3. Thats my dream car. Well, until the new M4 comes out.

M3 is pretty sweet... not so practical for driving bikes around though.

"And Andrew, why the attack on me? I don't even know you, it's your first day on the board. Not a good way to start out."

Calling my question dumb is not a great way to greet newcomers.... and I'm only techincally a newcomer because I just registered... I have been reading the list for a while.

I attacked you because I don't think you judgment of my question is valid. I'm "attacking the witness/questioning the credibility."

"You did ask a stupid question to be blunt, sorry. And I did answer it. Plus your making fun of the shcool I'm attending? What the hell is that about? Thats messed up, and you need to mind you own business. And you comment about UCCS is fruitless anyways. If you knew anything you would know it's one of the best schools in the country for ME. 9th best last time I checked, LAST WEEK."

I'm questioning your school because you make grand claims about racing/components/training/my own question/anything but I do not think you are justified.

Surely you must know the USNEWS's rankings are a joke.... regardless, my point is that you aren't justified in your arguments/claims/judgments.

I need to lose FAT? I need to lose FAT? HAHAHAHA. HEY EVERYONE! Andrew says I need to lose FAT!! If you knew me you'd be smacking yourself. Theres a pic of my "super-FAT" body on the site. If anything I need to lose muscle. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... c&start=45

A road racing cyclist would know that that muscle is useless - hence, i called it fat..... It's only slowing you down.

Your the one who probley needs to lose a "few" pounds.

You have never seen a picture of me so you claim is totally unjustified... my claim, on the other hand, is justified.

A.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:55 pm
Posts: 240
Location: St. Louis
Yes, I have an M3. I don't have to worry about hauling the bike in it, that's what the Jeep Cherokee and the Ford F-150 Supercrew are for. Luckily my job provides a car so I don't ever have to drive mine to work.

Out of curiousity, why would you tell a guy that he needs to lose some fat? That's a pretty stupid statement to make given the fact that you don't even know him. Turns out the dude has no fat at all!

Why would you put down his college? As far as I know CU is a pretty respectable University. The guy is getting an education and he's in an ideal place to ride a bike. That seems like a pretty good set up to me. In fact, I had wanted to go to CU for the same reason but it ends up my folks didn't want to pay the out of state tuition. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:15 am
Posts: 3260
Location: tucson
this is ridiculous, so anyway....I have to give the nod to campy no matter what, and here is a break down why.

-Far more technologically advanced that DA
-A lot lighter than DA
-Personal opinion-the design function of the brake/shift lever on campy is much more functional. Anyone who has ever worked on bikes in a stand can attest to accidentally braking when trying to upshift DA (its mainly due to the angle of your hand while you're pedaling with the other...ah, never mind) I've never had this happen on a ride (I haven't logged serious time on a DA bike because I can't stand DA, so I am biased) but it doesn't inspire confidence in me.
-The internals in Campy can be rebuilt and replaced. For the long term this could mean that you end up saving money on Campy (rebuild rather than replace)
-Campy is all about the details. Even the ends of the brake cables are pointed and waxed(?) to make sure they go through the housing better the first time.
-sinilar to above, but campy is gorgeous. I mean seriously, you can debate the beauty of DA all day, and everyone has different opinions, but has anyone ever heard someone say, "man that campy groupo really mucks up the look of that bike"?

Campy Downside
-square taper BB? Come on guys.

IN my opinion, Campy now has 2 groupos that out perform DA (Rec. and Chorus) The only significant imporvement DA has made is the new crank. (I'm leaving 10 spd out cause campy has been there for a while)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:19 pm
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Rogue_M3 wrote:
Yes, I have an M3. I don't have to worry about hauling the bike in it, that's what the Jeep Cherokee and the Ford F-150 Supercrew are for. Luckily my job provides a car so I don't ever have to drive mine to work.

Sounds like you have a good deal going.

Out of curiousity, why would you tell a guy that he needs to lose some fat? That's a pretty stupid statement to make given the fact that you don't even know him. Turns out the dude has no fat at all!

1) It's wasn't a stupid statement. It was gratuitous, much like superlite's first response.
2) I was equating upper-body muscle with fat, which is a fair equation in road cycling.

Why would you put down his college? As far as I know CU is a pretty respectable University. The guy is getting an education and he's in an ideal place to ride a bike. That seems like a pretty good set up to me. In fact, I had wanted to go to CU for the same reason but it ends up my folks didn't want to pay the out of state tuition. :(


My jab at his university was pretty vague... It might have been a putdowna and it was probably gratuitous, but I was trying to demonstrate that his argumentation/comments are often unjustified.

A.

PS: So Campy or Shimano? :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:47 am 
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520 Dan wrote:
this is ridiculous, so anyway....I have to give the nod to campy no matter what, and here is a break down why.

-Far more technologically advanced that DA
-A lot lighter than DA
-Personal opinion-the design function of the brake/shift lever on campy is much more functional. Anyone who has ever worked on bikes in a stand can attest to accidentally braking when trying to upshift DA (its mainly due to the angle of your hand while you're pedaling with the other...ah, never mind) I've never had this happen on a ride (I haven't logged serious time on a DA bike because I can't stand DA, so I am biased) but it doesn't inspire confidence in me.
-The internals in Campy can be rebuilt and replaced. For the long term this could mean that you end up saving money on Campy (rebuild rather than replace)
-Campy is all about the details. Even the ends of the brake cables are pointed and waxed(?) to make sure they go through the housing better the first time.
-sinilar to above, but campy is gorgeous. I mean seriously, you can debate the beauty of DA all day, and everyone has different opinions, but has anyone ever heard someone say, "man that campy groupo really mucks up the look of that bike"?

Campy Downside
-square taper BB? Come on guys.

IN my opinion, Campy now has 2 groupos that out perform DA (Rec. and Chorus) The only significant imporvement DA has made is the new crank. (I'm leaving 10 spd out cause campy has been there for a while)


I agree, the more inventive engineers are in Vicenza, there is so much elegant thinking in these pieces (although maybe they could slow down the "carbon bits" department) and I would add: on a purely aesthetic note, the finish is better and better lasting on Campy, and on a purely monetary note, the resale value is better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:49 am 
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Posts: 108
this is ridiculous, so anyway....I have to give the nod to campy no matter what, and here is a break down why.

Why is this ridiculous... your comment is actually very helpful and answers my question!

-Far more technologically advanced that DA

Could you elaborate a little bit? I tend to think that Campy takes the KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) approach while Shimano is possibly over-engineered (can't rebuild the shifters).

-A lot lighter than DA

True.

-Personal opinion-the design function of the brake/shift lever on campy is much more functional. Anyone who has ever worked on bikes in a stand can attest to accidentally braking when trying to upshift DA (its mainly due to the angle of your hand while you're pedaling with the other...ah, never mind)

Not sure I follow you... I think the biggest problem with the upshift on DA is that it's so vague... much more feedback with Campy on the upshift... they are about equal on the downshift.

I think my big gripe with Campy is the thumb button... I just got a Chorus bike and it's not that easy to use.... when in the hoods you have to place your hand pretty far back so you can use the thumb button... and I haven't figured out a way to downshift in the drops.

I've never had this happen on a ride (I haven't logged serious time on a DA bike because I can't stand DA, so I am biased) but it doesn't inspire confidence in me.

Was this on 9speed hoods or 10 speed hoods? The 10 speed hoods are very skinny at the start, and then they have a very high "hood."

-The internals in Campy can be rebuilt and replaced. For the long term this could mean that you end up saving money on Campy (rebuild rather than replace)

True.

-Campy is all about the details. Even the ends of the brake cables are pointed and waxed(?) to make sure they go through the housing better the first time.

Didn't know this... thanks!

-sinilar to above, but campy is gorgeous. I mean seriously, you can debate the beauty of DA all day, and everyone has different opinions, but has anyone ever heard someone say, "man that campy groupo really mucks up the look of that bike"?

I agree.

Campy Downside
-square taper BB? Come on guys.

Cannondale SI solves this!

IN my opinion, Campy now has 2 groupos that out perform DA (Rec. and Chorus) The only significant imporvement DA has made is the new crank. (I'm leaving 10 spd out cause campy has been there for a while)

Hmm... you have definitely pushed me in the direction of Campy, when I was leaving towards Shimano earlier.

I think I'm so indecisive that I will get whichever one I can get quicker through employee purchase.

Thanks again,
Andrew


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:49 am 
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Location: Colorado
I know this is off topic, but Rouge M3, what model do you have, e36, or the e46? Post a pic if you can. I love this car. If you got the e36 here's the best place to hook it up.

http://www.koperformance.com/bmw.html

They have everything. If I get an e36, ohhh yeah supercharged S52 engine, mmmmmm. 0-60 in 4.2 sec here I come! :D

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