On durability; SIDI versus BONT shoes.

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roelez
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by roelez

MichaelB wrote:
roelez wrote:Here is my bont pictures ..
The cracked one is wear for 1 year and the other 1 is around 3 months

After a year the outer sole begin to crack but the rubber on heels are fine.. and then come the replacement and now the rubber is *f##k* up .. cut out pic as it's been seen already


I look at those and go faaaarrrrkkk :unbelievable: , but ....

It shows one of two things ;

(a) - you are really rough with your shoes and don't spend the time to maintain them, OR
(b) - you do a shed load of miles and they are crap shoes.

Without knowing either, I'm just hoping that whilst I look after my shoes (replace the replaceable bits just before they get rooted) and I'm not a million mile a year person and not a powerhouse, that they'll last me a few years and not give problems, just like my Sidi's

Well at least once a week i cleaned it , the only reason i wear bont because this shoes really fit my wide feet well , i have mavic zxellium ultimate that i wear at least 2 years and doesnt showing any damage like my bont ..

N4th4n
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by N4th4n

I have recently gone from wearing Sidis for around 5 years to Bont Plus in the last few weeks.

For reference I'm a 45 in Sidi and also a 45 in Bont.

The Sidis are a good fit for me, very durable, although I have found the new glossy Ergo3's and Wires tend to deteriorate quicker than the older buff leather. Also I found the new Wires were higher on the body, which rubbed just under my ankle bone so I decided to change.

I bought the Bont Plus in white, did 3 times through I n the oven and the outcome was amazing. For me, the fit compared to Sidis is a different league, absolutely no rubbing areas or hot spots. I was in Mallorca last week in 30 degree heat and no hot foot, and managed to climb out the saddle with zero aching, which always came on after a while with my Ergo 3s. These things are very nice. The only down side is that the sole is obviously a little bigger than most shoes and one smooth bath tub of carbon. If you are walking on gravel or stones it will scratch it to bits.

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Liggero
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by Liggero

KWalker wrote:No they wouldn't. Lots of people do not like the shape and feel of Bont and all top level road shoes have soles that are more than stiff enough. Any flex is actually just deflected and not dissipated anyways. This is veering from the thread but all the pros in white S-Works buy their shoes. Specialized does not sponsor any of them. Considering a rider needs 2 pairs in the team car, one on their feet, often 1-2 backup pairs at home plus orthotics for almost all of them then you have more pros paying more money for S-Works than any other shoe brand. They could easily buy Bont, Giro, or whatever, but don't.

As for the thread topic I agree about the Sidi toe cap. The overlap from toe protection is 1-2mm at most and usually isn't an issue for most people anyways. Sidi could do what Specialized and Giro do and at least put a rubber bumper that goes a bit higher up, but don't. When I had Sidis that was my only gripe about them.

I want to like Bonts in theory, but the toe box simply doesn't fit the contour of my foot from the 3rd to 5th met. Not going to plop down $400 on shoes and hope the molding solves it. Even then the upper is not very comfortable and I would have to run it much looser, but then the foot would move around. Some I know that have tried them have felt the same way and had durability issues, others love them and refuse to ride anything else.


1.- No, specialized does not sell those white shoes, therefore the riders can not buy them. They get them for free I think. If they have to pay them, well, they are much cheaper than a custom fit Bont, so this could be an answer. Most riders would bother to spend that much money in a few pairs of shoes per year, if the price is so much higher. A custom bonts is lot of money, and the non custom may fit you or may not.

2.- Custom bonts will fit mostly anybody. Mostly.

3.- And this is the best, a huge percentage of the pro peloton, does not know about biomechanics, medicine, engenieering, fit, etc, etc, as much as one may think. They all know how to hard the *f##k* up, for sure, but 50% of people who do bike fit don't know much really, or don't do it as well as they should, pro riders know even less.
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KWalker
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by KWalker

They sell the shoes, but only to pros. This is according to many employees there and pros that have actually bought several pairs of them. They do not get them for free. The only teams that get free shoes are Etixx and Astana, who only get the team livery and red/white versions.

The pro peloton races bikes for a living. They aren't going to compromise their job for something that is pure shit. And, having spoken to quite a few fitters that fit pro riders, Specialized and Shimano are right up there with Bont as the most supportive and ergonomic shoe so they're not losing much there either. Add that to the sheer amount of miles they do, Bont's former problems with cracked soles, and you have a pretty solid reason to buy from the Big S. Almost every pro team is now fit by a team of very educated PTs and biomechanics specialists so its very unlikely that absolute no one would realize that only Bonts will allow the human body to perform well on a bike.
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Dirty32
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by Dirty32

Liggero wrote:1.- No, specialized does not sell those white shoes, therefore the riders can not buy them.


I have to disagree..... I live in Australia (and heard that they werent available for sale in certain parts of Europe or the US), but I managed to buy a pair (all white S-works) just fine a couple of months back. The exact same versions that Boonen & Terpstra were wearing, earlier this season (& may still be). I did hear that they were being pulled from the shelves due to some dodgey QA/QC issues however, but I dont know whether this was true or not.

I dont know whether they had to buy them or not, but given Specialized are a major sponsor for Quickstep, I can't see it being too hard for either of these riders (or others in the Peloton) to obtain that particular shoe...

I also find it difficult to believe that any high level pro teams would not be able to seek out and find or employ the services and advice of the other 50% of bike fitters that do know how to fit a bike well... I mean, if we as consumers can seemingly find the 'best' or more recommended fitters in our regions on the net, it cant be too hard for anyone running a Pro team to do the same!

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guyc
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by guyc

Got a source for that 50% figure then?

KWalker
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by KWalker

Dirty32 wrote:
Liggero wrote:1.- No, specialized does not sell those white shoes, therefore the riders can not buy them.


I have to disagree..... I live in Australia (and heard that they werent available for sale in certain parts of Europe or the US), but I managed to buy a pair (all white S-works) just fine a couple of months back. The exact same versions that Boonen & Terpstra were wearing, earlier this season (& may still be). I did hear that they were being pulled from the shelves due to some dodgey QA/QC issues however, but I dont know whether this was true or not.

I dont know whether they had to buy them or not, but given Specialized are a major sponsor for Quickstep, I can't see it being too hard for either of these riders (or others in the Peloton) to obtain that particular shoe...

I also find it difficult to believe that any high level pro teams would not be able to seek out and find or employ the services and advice of the other 50% of bike fitters that do know how to fit a bike well... I mean, if we as consumers can seemingly find the 'best' or more recommended fitters in our regions on the net, it cant be too hard for anyone running a Pro team to do the same!


They weren't actually the same version as the inner lining was a different color (grey) and they don't have the custom last most of the pros buy. They were pulled and recalled because the sole on them delaminated, but only in a few documented cases. Knowing someone that works with shoe design there its been a problem on a lot of S-Works and was related more to the run of soles than a particular color, however, the all white ones all got that sole unfortunately.

Maybe a few years ago bike fit was an afterthought, but these days most pro teams seek out the best fit specialists they can find and look after the rider's fits across the entire season. My fitter was up in Tahoe the day before ToC checking up on his Garmin, BMC, Giant, and Saxo riders and according to him FWIW pro riders are now extremely attentive to any possible gains in efficiency from shoes, orthotics, and position changes.
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guyc
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by guyc

KWalker wrote:My fitter was up in Tahoe the day before ToC checking up on his Garmin, BMC, Giant, and Saxo riders and according to him FWIW pro riders are now extremely attentive to any possible gains in efficiency from shoes, orthotics, and position changes.


That simply can't be right. Because:

a) a huge percentage of the pro peloton, does not know about biomechanics, medicine, engenieering, fit....

b) 50% of people who do bike fit don't know much really, or don't do it as well as they should, pro riders know even less

:wink:

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by Harmitc

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Dirty32
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by Dirty32

KWalker wrote:Maybe a few years ago bike fit was an afterthought, but these days most pro teams seek out the best fit specialists they can find and look after the rider's fits across the entire season. My fitter was up in Tahoe the day before ToC checking up on his Garmin, BMC, Giant, and Saxo riders and according to him FWIW pro riders are now extremely attentive to any possible gains in efficiency from shoes, orthotics, and position changes.


Exactly what I was inferring, without me actually knowing... I don't have anything close to any inside word or link to anyone in any pro peloton, so couldnt say for sure...

But, it isnt hard to imagine that if we as consumers can get on the net and seek out the best in that field, then surely those who cycle for a living, or team owners who rely on their riders performing efficiently and without risk of injury could employ or at the very least contract those same experts to support the team throughout the season. I assume that this is a given, and comments before just sounded nigh on ridiculous to me!


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Liggero
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by Liggero

You guys are overstating, supposing, bla, bla, bla... Sky will habe decent biomechanics and all riders should colaborate with them. Also all teams now use orthotics etc... some new teams with low budget, say Orica, say chubeqa, those are plugged in, and know their shit. Other more traditional teams, say movistar, europstar, ag2r, cofidis, good old euskaltel, vini fantini, caja rural... these are a differente story, trust me. Some teams are now doing orthotics sesions, one day in the whole season, they do new footbeds, and see you until same day next season. Bye. Some times is pressure from canyon, in the case of movistar, who wanted/helped them to go a bit in the way of "the science of sky". The rest, those whose riders like to stay up until 3am and go to prostitutions houses after racing, drinking, all the real good things of EUROPEAN teams, those don't even have decent mechanics. You guys would be surprised who these times go. These are not bmc, or orica, or even giant shimano, or Blanco, these are authentics based on tradition and har headed. If they want a frame 2 sizes smaller, no biomechanic in this world will change that.

about bont versus sidi, bont customs or heat modeable is complex/expensive. But riders are now going towards Sworks, more than sidi; similar price, but lighter weight and better performance for sworks, and perhaps more comfort. Sworks seems to be the new sidi, not in durability though... ;-D
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by KWalker

Movistar riders get fit at every training/altitude camp. The other teams you mentioned are old school pro conti teams, but I would still wager their riders have sought out what they can.


ANYYYYWWAYYYYYSSSSS

gotta say Sidi are really tough to break. Had 2 pairs for my first 2 years of riding and treated them like absolute shit and they were still in fantastic working order but just didn't quite fit. From what I gather their dials handle crashes better and they rarely break, can't say the same for BOAs. They aren't really for me, but they definitely have a pretty well known pedigree for holding up long term. I'm sure Bonts have improved their QC slightly, but still seeing a lot of internet cases of faulty dials, bad/inconsistent finishing, poor customer service, cracked soles, etc.
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Liggero
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by Liggero

KWalker wrote:Movistar riders get fit at every training/altitude camp. The other teams you mentioned are old school pro conti teams, but I would still wager their riders have sought out what they can.


ANYYYYWWAYYYYYSSSSS

gotta say Sidi are really tough to break. Had 2 pairs for my first 2 years of riding and treated them like absolute shit and they were still in fantastic working order but just didn't quite fit. From what I gather their dials handle crashes better and they rarely break, can't say the same for BOAs. They aren't really for me, but they definitely have a pretty well known pedigree for holding up long term. I'm sure Bonts have improved their QC slightly, but still seeing a lot of internet cases of faulty dials, bad/inconsistent finishing, poor customer service, cracked soles, etc.


Movistar riders get fit at the beginning on the season, and they all get sidas 3d insoles that same day. in half a day they do both things. They might get modifications during the season of course, but that is about it really. And they have imroed a lot now with canyon and endura. It was much much worse before. And they are the best of the spanish teams, the rest are worse. And of course, they were the last to stay on 23mm tubulars for flat stages... and yes, those old school teams work like that, and they race grand tours one year, and the next and the next.

You guys think that because they are pro, all of them, and their brothers, get perfectly fitted and their mechanics are the best on the world and know all components that are in the market; wrong!

Watch the videos of youtube of Contador main mechanic, explaining the updates for each new season on the new bike, it is simply pathetic.
Happy Trails !!!

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