Alternative continental gp 4000s

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stormur
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by stormur

luckypuncheur wrote:Comparing the 4000S with a Rubino is interesting (to say the least).

Ever tried a Vittoria or Veloflex in bad weather conditions? If yes, you probably already stopped using them. [emoji6]

The most important feature of a racing tire is (at least in my book) reliability in all conditions (followed by low rolling resistance). No other tire comes close to the 4000S or Competition (if you prefer tubs) in this regard. And yes, I've been on quite many (not to say all) of those mentioned in this thread.


Conti Gp4000s2 is really like no other…. few examples FME :

- flat every 50-60km, finished by blow off ( sidewall ) after less than 500km ( 25mm)
- they're harsh like no other (23mm , shop changed 25 for new set of 23 )
- they "flatten profile" with mileage, what make them rubbish (unsafe) on cornering

Really good tires GP4ks2 saw maybe at store. They are not even close to Vittoria or Veloflex.

And yes, I rode Vittoria ( incl Rubino Pro3 ) and Veloflex on wet, even in hard rain, even 60-70kph downhill. Never felt safer on Conti. Can say felt less safe, much more less.

Where conti got flat ( same routes ) I did NEVER puncture Vittoria , nor Veloflex . ZERO flats, 2 seasons.

Did I mention PITA mounting Conti tires ?

Overall they're not bad, but do not belong to high-end class. Never did, never will. Explaining by price, they're in 20€ ballpark.
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luckypuncheur
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by luckypuncheur

stormur wrote:
luckypuncheur wrote:Comparing the 4000S with a Rubino is interesting (to say the least).

Ever tried a Vittoria or Veloflex in bad weather conditions? If yes, you probably already stopped using them. [emoji6]

The most important feature of a racing tire is (at least in my book) reliability in all conditions (followed by low rolling resistance). No other tire comes close to the 4000S or Competition (if you prefer tubs) in this regard. And yes, I've been on quite many (not to say all) of those mentioned in this thread.


Conti Gp4000s2 is really like no other…. few examples FME :

- flat every 50-60km, finished by blow off ( sidewall ) after less than 500km ( 25mm)
- they're harsh like no other (23mm , shop changed 25 for new set of 23 )
- they "flatten profile" with mileage, what make them rubbish (unsafe) on cornering

Really good tires GP4ks2 saw maybe at store. They are not even close to Vittoria or Veloflex.

And yes, I rode Vittoria ( incl Rubino Pro3 ) and Veloflex on wet, even in hard rain, even 60-70kph downhill. Never felt safer on Conti. Can say felt less safe, much more less.

Where conti got flat ( same routes ) I did NEVER puncture Vittoria , nor Veloflex . ZERO flats, 2 seasons.

Did I mention PITA mounting Conti tires ?

Overall they're not bad, but do not belong to high-end class. Never did, never will. Explaining by price, they're in 20€ ballpark.


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Svetty
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by Svetty

luckypuncheur wrote:
stormur wrote:
luckypuncheur wrote:Comparing the 4000S with a Rubino is interesting (to say the least).

Ever tried a Vittoria or Veloflex in bad weather conditions? If yes, you probably already stopped using them.

The most important feature of a racing tire is (at least in my book) reliability in all conditions (followed by low rolling resistance). No other tire comes close to the 4000S or Competition (if you prefer tubs) in this regard. And yes, I've been on quite many (not to say all) of those mentioned in this thread.


Conti Gp4000s2 is really like no other…. few examples FME :

- flat every 50-60km, finished by blow off ( sidewall ) after less than 500km ( 25mm)
- they're harsh like no other (23mm , shop changed 25 for new set of 23 )
- they "flatten profile" with mileage, what make them rubbish (unsafe) on cornering

Really good tires GP4ks2 saw maybe at store. They are not even close to Vittoria or Veloflex.

And yes, I rode Vittoria ( incl Rubino Pro3 ) and Veloflex on wet, even in hard rain, even 60-70kph downhill. Never felt safer on Conti. Can say felt less safe, much more less.

Where conti got flat ( same routes ) I did NEVER puncture Vittoria , nor Veloflex . ZERO flats, 2 seasons.

Did I mention PITA mounting Conti tires ?

Overall they're not bad, but do not belong to high-end class. Never did, never will. Explaining by price, they're in 20€ ballpark.


You're always good for a laugh mate!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

stormur
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by stormur

Maybe in opposite to many here, specially these fed by Shimano ( Conti owner ) - and do not say you all don't see this clearly ( plenty examples of "conti for everyone " here / trendsetter is the right name for this job ? / - I did ride on more than 10 different tires in last 2-3 years.So have REAL LIFE comparison. That's first.

Second : "You're always good for a laugh mate!" - ANY ARGUMENTS , or all you can do is just trolling ???

You have to be really blind or really dumb ( sorry, face the truth ) to not see "favorite" brands - doesn't matter how good/ crap they are. They're simply feeded by people ( payed this way or another ) to "keep things straight".

MOST guarded product ( and advertised ) is Conti GP4000s/S2 . To the level when it is far above pathetic. On the market are many other tires at same price level and FAR better than Conti. for 20€ they are OK, nothing more.




And with what you want to discuss ? Did my Conti really get flat every 50-60 km ? Or with that one of them ( front ) had blow in the middle of crossroad (20 witnesses for that ) - or with fact both 25mm tires had visible cord on sidewalls ( want a copy of email to/from Continental with images proving poor quality and their apologies ??? ) .

or do you want to negate fact 4000s is loosing roundness within weraing out ?

Ideology leave for communists - manage with facts, way healthier. And Fair.

If you can't , just keep your mouth shut down.
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Marin
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by Marin

Time for some relax juice.

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WMW
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by WMW

stormur wrote:- flat every 50-60km, finished by blow off ( sidewall ) after less than 500km ( 25mm)
- they're harsh like no other (23mm , shop changed 25 for new set of 23 )
- they "flatten profile" with mileage, what make them rubbish (unsafe) on cornering

Really good tires GP4ks2 saw maybe at store. They are not even close to Vittoria or Veloflex.


Do you discover why they flatted? The blowoff is likely from poor installation, and the flats could be as well.

I've been riding Conti tires since GP4000 Black Chili came out. Vittoria and Veloflex occasionally, and lately because all my roads were chipsealed. The Contis last twice as long and their resistance to glass cuts is much better. They don't have as nice a ride, but that is the only negative.
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luckypuncheur
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by luckypuncheur

Lots of I'd say.

Again someone dared to disagree with almighty stormur. [emoji6]

Just one last remark: Go to a European race or Gran Fondo of your choice and check which tires are run by the FOP-folks who clearly ride a lot and are what one would call "experienced". Conti's market share in this peer group is IME close to 90%, with Schwalbe almost accounting for the rest.

Reliability, cornering qualities, predictability, durability, grip in damp/wet conditions and supreme puncture protection might be some reasons for that.
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bombertodd
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by bombertodd

I generally found the Conti's harsh and prone to punctures. If I'm going to deal with punctures I want a supple tire as the tradeoff. I also like the predictability of Vittoria and Veloflex high end tires. Cont's are flat out scary in the rain.

Marin
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by Marin

I didn't flat my 4000s since I mounted them, 7000km ago. The rear is now slightly angular in the middle, so for now it's doing its job on the front wheel :)

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

FWIW, I rode Vittoria and Veloflex tubulars on training and racing almost exclusively for some 30k km in my first 4 seasons of adventures on the road.

I've punctured 2 Veloflex (one Carbon, one Sprinter), however all Vittorias (Corsa Evo SC) eventually let me down - either developed inner leaks (partially fixable by sealant sometimes, but not always), or got destroyed in various other freaky accidents. Some kind of bad karma, I guess.

Only last season I moved to clinchers with all that 25mm craze. Initially Michelins (Pro4), now Conti GP4000s2. No punctures on Michelins ever (rear tire was worn out to being flat), not yet on Conti either.

I do wonder, what do people really feel by saying "Contis are feeling dead". What my ass feels - when I switch from my racing aero bike with Contis (25mm/latex tubes, pumped to 85-95psi) on Enve 6'7 over to the TT bike which has 23mm Carbons on it on Zipp 808's (110-115psi), I indeed feel the difference of small holes on the road. And not in Veloflex favour. Maybe it's from the pressure one actually puts in, but why then bother arguing which tyre has "good ride" and which has not?

Tom Anhalt also tests Contis as very fast (only a couple of watts difference to other fastest tyres). I've never seen Veloflex test among the fastest tyres (except Records, but you sure won't run them daily).
Still, I regard Veloflex as one of the best tubular tyres around (and all my tubular wheelsets have them on), but with each day, I find less and less objective evidence for keeping them up there. Sure I won't ride Continental tubulars, but when clinchers join the party, then 25mm vs 23mm offsets all other "comfort" factors one might feel, in my experience, and, if paired with latex tubes, you are up there on the rolling resistance charts as well.

So right now, I'm continuing on Conti clinchers. But Veloflex still are sitting and waiting on my 1000g wheelset for those Alpine descents, of course.
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luckypuncheur
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by luckypuncheur

mrlobber wrote:FWIW, I rode Vittoria and Veloflex tubulars on training and racing almost exclusively for some 30k km in my first 4 seasons of adventures on the road.

I've punctured 2 Veloflex (one Carbon, one Sprinter), however all Vittorias (Corsa Evo SC) eventually let me down - either developed inner leaks (partially fixable by sealant sometimes, but not always), or got destroyed in various other freaky accidents. Some kind of bad karma, I guess.

Only last season I moved to clinchers with all that 25mm craze. Initially Michelins (Pro4), now Conti GP4000s2. No punctures on Michelins ever (rear tire was worn out to being flat), not yet on Conti either.

I do wonder, what do people really feel by saying "Contis are feeling dead". What my ass feels - when I switch from my racing aero bike with Contis (25mm/latex tubes, pumped to 85-95psi) on Enve 6'7 over to the TT bike which has 23mm Carbons on it on Zipp 808's (110-115psi), I indeed feel the difference of small holes on the road. And not in Veloflex favour. Maybe it's from the pressure one actually puts in, but why then bother arguing which tyre has "good ride" and which has not?

Tom Anhalt also tests Contis as very fast (only a couple of watts difference to other fastest tyres). I've never seen Veloflex test among the fastest tyres (except Records, but you sure won't run them daily).
Still, I regard Veloflex as one of the best tubular tyres around (and all my tubular wheelsets have them on), but with each day, I find less and less objective evidence for keeping them up there. Sure I won't ride Continental tubulars, but when clinchers join the party, then 25mm vs 23mm offsets all other "comfort" factors one might feel, in my experience, and, if paired with latex tubes, you are up there on the rolling resistance charts as well.

So right now, I'm continuing on Conti clinchers. But Veloflex still are sitting and waiting on my 1000g wheelset for those Alpine descents, of course.


^^

For me: Veloflex tubulars for fair weather training and group rides (yes, they feel awesome) and Conti Competition/GP4000S tubulars/clinchers for raceday and general training, GP 4Season for winter training.

BTW: I haven't had a flat during training or in a race with Conti for more than 3 years in a row now (~ 50.000 km).
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Svetty
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by Svetty

The statistical likelihood that any individual will cover enough distance on different makes of tyre to swamp the random nature of puncturing is tiny. The vagaries of glass, thorns, flints etc are what determines puncture frequency ( assuming correct fitting and inflation) not tyre make.

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by sawyer

@luckypuncheur

I have been FOP or not far away at numerous European gran fondos over the past 12 years or so ... Your %ages are of out whack, though you are right that many strong experienced riders will be quite happy with Contis. You also see plenty of Vittorias, Vredesteins etc there too

Contis are generally better for puncture resistance than the Italian brands. In tub form (I ride most such rides on tubs these days) they lose a bit of ground because they aren't supple enough to benefit from latex inner tubes - which can be ridden safely at high speed down a mountain when encased in a tubular
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by Derf

mrlobber wrote:Tom Anhalt also tests Contis as very fast (only a couple of watts difference to other fastest tyres). I've never seen Veloflex test among the fastest tyres (except Records, but you sure won't run them daily).
Still, I regard Veloflex as one of the best tubular tyres around (and all my tubular wheelsets have them on), but with each day, I find less and less objective evidence for keeping them up there. Sure I won't ride Continental tubulars, but when clinchers join the party, then 25mm vs 23mm offsets all other "comfort" factors one might feel, in my experience, and, if paired with latex tubes, you are up there on the rolling resistance charts as well.


I hardly see Veloflex (or other much smaller brands) tubulars show up on these at-home tests. I'm largely betting it's due to cost and rarity. Not to say either way that they're fast or slow--just that we have an absence of data either way.

I'm with you on the fact that clinchers have made such a huge advance that, accepting certain criteria, you can have as good, if not better riding experience on them.

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luckypuncheur
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by luckypuncheur

sawyer wrote:@luckypuncheur

I have been FOP or not far away at numerous European gran fondos over the past 12 years or so ... Your %ages are of out whack, though you are right that many strong experienced riders will be quite happy with Contis. You also see plenty of Vittorias, Vredesteins etc there too

Contis are generally better for puncture resistance than the Italian brands. In tub form (I ride most such rides on tubs these days) they lose a bit of ground because they aren't supple enough to benefit from latex inner tubes - which can be ridden safely at high speed down a mountain when encased in a tubular


It might depend on where you ride, but in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and surprisingly Italy Conti outnumbers the other manufacturers by far. Could of course be less than 90%, but it's IME quite obvious that they're very popular (and that for a reason).

And: I wouldn't say that the 4000S is the ultimate tire or that there aren't good alternatives available, but the stuff written in this thread strongly differs from what I and most of my riding buddies experienced over the years in terms of punctures, ride quality, handling in wet conditions and so on and so forth.

But maybe I just don't get why some folks think it's appropriate to trash a fine product for no obvious reason. [emoji45]
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