Cracked frames and manufacturers way of dealing with it

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53x12
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by 53x12

wingguy wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:Frame was repaired or frame was exchanged?
How many times is it ok for a manufacturer to repair the same frame before they actually should replace it?
Does it matter if it is a premium frame or cheaper version?


I've dealt with multiple warranties for cracked frames in carbon, aluminium and titanium and whenever the warranty has been accepted the frames have always been replaced, never repaired. Worst manufacturer for taking responsibility probably Felt, best Cervelo.



I've heard only good things regarding Felt's customer service and warranty issue. Might just be local shop being a big mover of Felt bikes. Another one of those things in cycling where YMMV.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

wingguy wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:Frame was repaired or frame was exchanged?
How many times is it ok for a manufacturer to repair the same frame before they actually should replace it?
Does it matter if it is a premium frame or cheaper version?


I've dealt with multiple warranties for cracked frames in carbon, aluminium and titanium and whenever the warranty has been accepted the frames have always been replaced, never repaired. Worst manufacturer for taking responsibility probably Felt, best Cervelo.


Well i can tell you as first hand that this is not always true. I know as i am in the middle of such an event.
If that is true of Cervelo, i should perhaps consider Cervelo some time.
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newforker
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by newforker

Have worked in the industry for the last 5 years.

Can say that Cervelo probably has one of the best warranty programs out there. That being said the shop I worked for was one of the biggest dealers in the country/North America. So take that with a grain of salt. Cervelo was also the brand with the highest rate of return with manufacturer defect frames. So...

I have also found that small boutique manufacturers/cool brands/Italian outfits/ companies that use a distributor rather than having a subsidiary in the country of distributorship tend to suck with all things warranty.

We had a customer who had spent upwards of 30 k with us on various bikes in a month, and when his C59 developed a crack around the chain stay we were adamant that a replacement was forthcoming. Colnago offered "a repair, at the cost of $1000 bucks plus shipping"...needless to say our rep was told to pass on some very nasty words to Ernesto.

That being said it is also a matter of the relationship between the bike shop and the supplier/manufacturer. If they are on good terms, it means your frame is likely to get warrantied sooner, or you get stuck in limbo in the "warranty process"..which is shop speak for "we dont have a good working relationship with XYZ distributor..your going to wait"..sad but true..I have seen it on more than one occasion.

There have also been times that I have either helped customers of myself have been on the receiving end of great customer service. The ENVE distributor in Canada was truly quite amazing. And I am always willing and happy to support/promote their product.

Had a personal experience with EE Cycleworks, where a titanium bolt that I had stripped by either using too little ti-paste or a shitty tool. Regardless I emailed Craig about a year later after purchase, not only did he remember me, but he called me back within an hour after my email! Was really blown away by that. Needless to say I shipped him my brake back and everything was replaced, cleaned and sent back within a week.

Short and sweet version..Every company has different ways of dealing with warranty, Shop X might be good with Brand Y and get you a replacement frame in a week. While Shop Z might hate Brand Y and just truly not give a shit. If you think otherwise, spend 5 years in retail.

Its just business.

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micky
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by micky

After 1-2 years since my purchase at Canyon I noticed a crack in the BB area of around 1cm or so; I contacted Canyon, they asked for the frame to be shipped, they refused to change it.
Less than 1 year later the crack was becoming slightly longer (2 cms) and I noticed online guys with my similar problems congratulating for Canyon's warranty replacement.
So I tried once again, sent frame back and finally they said yes; they sent me 2-3 months later a black frame (mine was white) without fork.
After mentioning that I've got a no-fork frame, sent it back and 1-2 months later got a new frame.

uraqt
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by uraqt

@ Calnago

One of the reasons I bought Cervelo was how they handled the R2.5 and the R3 bottom bracket issues. They replaced a lot of frames and they did it right. : )

A lot of people say you can fix "broken carbon fiber" but I am not convinced as some of the layups are crazy and some of the shapes create strength.


C

PS My Cervelo should be my last bike, but if not there is no way I will change brands......and that is whole point of their customer service.

wingguy
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by wingguy

wheelsONfire wrote:If that is true of Cervelo, i should perhaps consider Cervelo some time.


We dealt with a guy who bought an old aluminium S1 off ebay and it developed a small crack at the seatclamp. Cervelo sent out a replacement carbon S2 frame and fork.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

uraqt wrote:@ Calnago

One of the reasons I bought Cervelo was how they handled the R2.5 and the R3 bottom bracket issues. They replaced a lot of frames and they did it right. : )

A lot of people say you can fix "broken carbon fiber" but I am not convinced as some of the layups are crazy and some of the shapes create strength.


C

PS My Cervelo should be my last bike, but if not there is no way I will change brands......and that is whole point of their customer service.

How did they handle the R2.5 r3 BB issue? Just curious. I'd rather there not have been those issues in the first place. It's kind of moot now since they are under new management and I've heard a lot of the QC and/or design issues are being better handled.
On the flip side, I've never had to warranty a Colnago but I have heard some not so great stories from those who have. And I'll be the first to admit they if I ever did have to warranty one, I would not be expecting to be up and riding again anytime soon, at least on that bike. So in that regard having a Specialized, Trek, Cervelo, Giant etc... I would expect that once your warranty was approved you'd have a new frame in fairly short order. But like someone mentioned, at lot depends on the shop, their relationship with their suppliers, how efficient and diligent they are in getting things done etc. Even though I don't need a shops expertise for any builds or repairs, I still patronize the brick and mortars down the road whenever feasible, because when you do need them as is usually the case for warranty stuff it's nice to know they're there.
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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

I heard a story about a distributor of Spanish bikes, who wasn't always required to send the damaged frames back to the factory - especially those with 'obvious' failures. so he had them repaired and either gave them back to customers (who checks serials anyway) or sold them as 'brand new'... AFAIK he's into 'boutique' bikes now..
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rossjm11
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by rossjm11

Ritte Vlaanderen, 1 email with a picture and I had an RA number. Same day as my frame arrived they sent me a new one. Turn around time was sub 2 weeks and basically all of that was shipping.
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53x12
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by 53x12

Calnago wrote:Wow! Four cracked frames from one manufacturer and you're still riding their frames? That's loyalty. I know one guy who after the 2nd warrantied Cervelo frame (3rd frame in his possession) just hated the process of new frame, wait to break, get new frame under warranty, repeat... that he just sold the 3rd frame and moved onto a different brand.
And in the end, it just isn't even worth it for a company to try to repair a frame with all the labor involved etc. Cheaper to just replace it.


While you never want your frame to fail or develop an issue, it is still important to know that the brand will take care of you with minimal headache. I guess you could look at multiple Cervelo frame issues as bad and not want to ride them. Or maybe look at the company stepping up, taking responsibility and taking care of the customer by doing what's right? Maybe they have a higher than average rate of issues, I don't know? But it would be comforting to know they would take care of you.
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kode54
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by kode54

i also think that a lot has to do with the LBS as well. being that they are the liaison between you and the manufacturer. that said, a friends Cannondale BB cracked (he slid and got road rash)...the LBS got a replacement frame...a better EVO as a replacement. he didn't have a choice on color...only the same size and whatever they had. replacement was made during the winter. the bike shop did the swap and the entire bike was back to him 2 and a half months later. yeah...a bit long, but he was happy...and recovering from a shoulder injury during CX season.

i crashed my Parlee...and Parlee asked me to send it up to them so they can see it in person, not just the pictures i sent them. was offered crash replacement, but instead, bought a used frame exactly what i had for 1,500 less than the cost of the new crash replacement they offered. i know you weren't interested in crashes....but i just thought i would put it out there.
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stormur
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by stormur

Bought in 2012 NOS ( from dealer ) BMC CX01 frameset. After 200km noticed crack on chainstay. Sent images to dealer. 24 h later BMC contacted me for images for them. Got offer from Dealer for other manufacturer frame/ Bike - I demanded BMC 3y Warranty : replacement. On 4th day BMC contacted me by email asking will I accept other "01" frame, cause Cx is not made anymore, and they have no stock. Accepted GF01 :) - new frame MRSP was 4 times more than I paid for cx01 ! Week later frameset arrived. All took under 14 days. Just need to cut old frame and send images to BMC . On every step ( claim acceptance , replacement acceptance, shipping new frame note ) - I was informed by BMC in Grenchen…

1 more thing : I'm in Finland, dealer was UK distributor.


BTW : if you want avoid warranty claim issues BUY FRAMESET, not the bike. Always do that. Cost more, but it's worth it. You can install anything in mean of wheels, groupset and rest. Never will hear " it is not original equipment" …
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eric
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by eric

Calnago wrote:How did they handle the R2.5 r3 BB issue?


They replaced all the frames. Even ones not owned by the original owner! No one does that. When they ran out of updated R2.5s for replacement they sent R3s.

I have had two carbon frames break. One was a used Trek STP soft tail MTB frame. I bought it on ebay and it arrived with a cracked chainstay. Appeared to have cracked from use, not from shipping. The crack was hidden by a chain stay protector the original owner had installed. He took it back and warrantied it. It took a while but Trek fixed and repainted it. I rode it for a year before going full suspension/disk.

I bought one of the first Cervelo R3s, in part due to how they'd handled the R2.5s. The BB insert came unbonded after three years. The selling LBS at first just tightened the crank, which I knew wouldn't do squat, so I had to take it back in a second time. I stripped the fame for them which surprised them. I got an R3SL replacement. Cervelo was out of R3s in my size and I took the opportunity to upgrade though I was charged the difference in frame price ($800). I would not have bought a $5000 frame otherwise. That was 2009 and I'm still riding it.

When I had a Ti frame break (Airborne Zeppelin) it took two months to get a replacement and was a lot of hassle. Not long after that Airborne was sold and the buyers stopped honoring the old warranties. So it pays to buy from a company that will be around in 3 years or whatever to fulfil the warranty should you need it.

em3
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by em3

There is no evidence indicating that Cervelo frames crack at a higher rate then say Colnago, Pinarello etc. (e.g. What is the rate of failure for very 1000 frames produced across different manufacturers?). What we do know is that Cervelo mass produces thousands more frames compared with the smaller manufacturers noted above, so even if they have the same rate of failure we are likely to here about more failures. More importantly we hear lots about broken Cervelo frames because they have a user forum where all the gripes about broken frames get aired….other manufacturers do not have the same public user forums. So, what we do know is that all frames are subject to cracking, especially carbon, but we certainly can't make claims about which are better and who has higher quality without FULL data.
______________

newforker
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by newforker

Would agree that it is hard to say that one manufacturer has a greater rate of failure versus another.

But from personal experience Cervelo's do have a high failure rate.

Again from personal experience they are pretty poorly made. Small details usually, but when you've seen a few thousand in the last few years you can begin to point out flaws and examples of shit quality very quickly.

Ive also owned 3 Cervelo's..R5 VWD, S5 VWD and 2014 R5..I think they are great designed and engineered bikes. They just do not use a good Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturer is all.

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