axlightness P38T vs Mavic CCU
Moderator: robbosmans
- zappafile123
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
I wrote a fairly comprehensive review of the Mavic CCU just the other day and posted it to the forum. Check it out. The hubs suck man. Tune hubs are meant to be among the best according to the fairwheel review. I'd give AX a go.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=132984
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=132984
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- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6283
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
Slight changes to pressure (from 8.25 bar to 7.5 front, from 8.5 bar to 7.7 rear(rider 74Kgs undressed) and i find when i pull harder, wheels whip up speed great, ride feel is superb and confident.
I think these will grow on me and they are fun to ride as they feel so good and run fast.
I rank comfort very high. For me it is key to be better and faster (others may rely on aero more).
I have no clue how super wattage guys deem wheels like these. But i can bike for 2 hours and be so tired i almost floor drop.
To me the Stream 38's (Tune) is seriously brilliant wheels.
I have not mounted the Ax brake pads, but they looks same as my Black Prince (brakes are EE 2015 version) . It rained today and braking in wet is not like alumiunium (you'll get the point).
(Mavics are slightly better braking in wet, both on Black Prince)
In short, if it rains, take it easy descending!
I think these will grow on me and they are fun to ride as they feel so good and run fast.
I rank comfort very high. For me it is key to be better and faster (others may rely on aero more).
I have no clue how super wattage guys deem wheels like these. But i can bike for 2 hours and be so tired i almost floor drop.
To me the Stream 38's (Tune) is seriously brilliant wheels.
I have not mounted the Ax brake pads, but they looks same as my Black Prince (brakes are EE 2015 version) . It rained today and braking in wet is not like alumiunium (you'll get the point).
(Mavics are slightly better braking in wet, both on Black Prince)
In short, if it rains, take it easy descending!
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
wheelsONfire wrote:Slight changes to pressure (from 8.25 bar to 7.5 front, from 8.5 bar to 7.7 rear(rider 74Kgs undressed) and i find when i pull harder, wheels whip up speed great, ride feel is superb and confident.
I think these will grow on me and they are fun to ride as they feel so good and run fast.
I rank comfort very high. For me it is key to be better and faster (others may rely on aero more).
I have no clue how super wattage guys deem wheels like these. But i can bike for 2 hours and be so tired i almost floor drop.
To me the Stream 38's (Tune) is seriously brilliant wheels.
I have not mounted the Ax brake pads, but they looks same as my Black Prince (brakes are EE 2015 version) . It rained today and braking in wet is not like alumiunium (you'll get the point).
(Mavics are slightly better braking in wet, both on Black Prince)
In short, if it rains, take it easy descending!
The question is how much better is the stream 38, at the moment it is all rider perception, it could be the different tyres you have on different wheels and as you have said it could be the pressure.
I really don't think there is much of difference between the two, they are both super wheelsets, you can't go wrong with either.
When comparing these high end wheelsets, are we just chasing shadows and fractions of a performance increase that are easily offest by changing riding conditions.
I definitely agree there is a performance improvement from a 1.7kg clicher wheelset to a 1.1kg tubular wheelset, but when we are comparing the Stream 38 to the CCU 40, I really can't see any difference, worth getting excited about.
- zappafile123
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
lannes wrote:wheelsONfire wrote: don't think there is much of difference between the two...
When comparing these high end wheelsets, are we just chasing shadows and fractions of a performance increase that are easily offest by changing riding conditions.
I'll start by agreeing with you that, with respect to objective performance i.e. is this wheelset faster than another wheelset, then yes, in most cases of similarly designed wheelsets, one would be chasing shadows to set apart two top end products apart.
However, I'm inclined to disagree with these two points for the following reasons. First, there are always going to be differences in the perception of difference wheelsets performance. This is due to the different design techniques employed to produce the wheels. E.g. Cosmic Ultimates have integrated carbon spokes, AX 38s, dont. One might be more comfortable, one might feel faster, one might be stiffer etc. I have to ask, have you ever ridden two different wheelsets that felt the same? Second, its not too difficult to replicate riding conditions to fleshout any ride quality differences between two sets.
What you cant do is determine exactly how its going to feel for someone else. You might pin down the basic properties of the ride, but given peoples different psychological attitudes, biases and physical attributes you cant say for sure.
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6283
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
zappafile123 wrote:lannes wrote:wheelsONfire wrote: don't think there is much of difference between the two...
When comparing these high end wheelsets, are we just chasing shadows and fractions of a performance increase that are easily offest by changing riding conditions.
I'll start by agreeing with you that, with respect to objective performance i.e. is this wheelset faster than another wheelset, then yes, in most cases of similarly designed wheelsets, one would be chasing shadows to set apart two top end products apart.
However, I'm inclined to disagree with these two points for the following reasons. First, there are always going to be differences in the perception of difference wheelsets performance. This is due to the different design techniques employed to produce the wheels. E.g. Cosmic Ultimates have integrated carbon spokes, AX 38s, dont. One might be more comfortable, one might feel faster, one might be stiffer etc. I have to ask, have you ever ridden two different wheelsets that felt the same? Second, its not too difficult to replicate riding conditions to fleshout any ride quality differences between two sets.
What you cant do is determine exactly how its going to feel for someone else. You might pin down the basic properties of the ride, but given peoples different psychological attitudes, biases and physical attributes you cant say for sure.
Sorry to say this, but the quote is not mine!
I don't say any wheel is faster than the other. I rode them a both and i prefer Stream 38 due to two reasons.
Comfort and stability. Perhaps someone would prefer CCU! It feels more stiff and it give more feedback from road in the manner of what i find a certain
harshness. This better translates when i use my Paduano bike which is more sensitive in this respect. Using CCU and Stream 38 on this bike says Stream 38
is offering nicer ride feel and first i thought Stream 38 was faster. But i think i rode harder at the begining.
When i put CCU back on this bike, i really thought, nope, they are for sure going on sale.
The weight difference is much more difficult to pin down. What i did notice was when i bought a deeper wheel, Easton Aero 55.
This is 370 grams more than Stream 38. This i can feel. It is noted in accelerations. To my surprise i also find Aero 55 more comfortable than CCU
also more stability. So i am certain the wider rims actually is no bogus, it offers better stability.
I rode CCU with all ranging from 22-24mm tires and that width is all i ever rode. There is no tire which make CCU feel as Stream 38 or Aero 55.
Ofcourse, i could write more detailed of sublime experiences but i leave that. What i can say is that there is a difference and Stream 38 is IMO my
preference of the two. If not, i had not sold CCU. For the sake of a deeper rim, sure, if you like a gain on flatter terrain and ease to maintain speed at
30km/h +. But looking at a wheelset at 1010 gram and another at 1380 grams, the lighter wheel will be more all around in my opinion.
Stream 38 is 26mm wide rim/ 38mm deep (1010 grams).
CCU is 20.8mm wide/ 40mm deep (1180 grams).
Aero 55 is 28mm wide at brake track, aero width is close to 30mm/ 56mm deep (1380 grams).
All wheelsets are tubular versions.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
I'd personally put my vote on the CCU for sprinting/climbing, but for fast flat rides, I'd choose my wider and deeper 50mm carbon clinchers.
The hubs and rim shape on the CCUs are noticeably worse at holding speed, but the stiffness is impossible to beat and having that extra snap on sprints or climbs is an amazing feeling.
Comfort on both wheelsets are about the same w/ 25mm GP4000S clinchers vs 25mm Vittoria Corsa CX tubs, but the Corsa CXs do feel a lot smoother. As an added note, I'm 52kg and typically run about 100/110psi on races and 10psi less on casual rides/training
The hubs and rim shape on the CCUs are noticeably worse at holding speed, but the stiffness is impossible to beat and having that extra snap on sprints or climbs is an amazing feeling.
Comfort on both wheelsets are about the same w/ 25mm GP4000S clinchers vs 25mm Vittoria Corsa CX tubs, but the Corsa CXs do feel a lot smoother. As an added note, I'm 52kg and typically run about 100/110psi on races and 10psi less on casual rides/training
For Mavic CU, wheel truing is only possible for the rear one. I guess AX wins when it comes to adjustability and longer life span.
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- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6283
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
Mavic CCU is not a best choice for an all around wheelset.
Stream 38 has much better comfort, it has better stability, it is lighter, it is a wider rim and better hubs.
It is easy to service... for a rim brake wheel, this is pretty much what you would ask for most normal strength riders.
Next step would be to jump up to a more aero type of wheelset.
But then again, if low(est) weight is what you want, this is not a set you will go wrong with.
Stream 38 has much better comfort, it has better stability, it is lighter, it is a wider rim and better hubs.
It is easy to service... for a rim brake wheel, this is pretty much what you would ask for most normal strength riders.
Next step would be to jump up to a more aero type of wheelset.
But then again, if low(est) weight is what you want, this is not a set you will go wrong with.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6283
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
europa94 wrote:CCU is a best choice!
Do you have both wheelset at hand as i have had?
I have had both along with 3 frames for CCU and 2 frames for Ax Lightness.
I rode Stream for 2 months to get an understanding for them, and then swapped back to CCU.
I had not been riding long until i decided CCU is not staying. Ofcourse i finished my route but not one second i felt they did me any better.
This route offers hills and descents, it's flat and windy there are sections where you are hidden due to the wood, where you can ride really fast.
I have used this route many times to try bikes and components as it offers pretty much everything you need to make an understanding complete.
I would say Ax is the better wheel without question.
You think CCU is better because you've seen it used by pro riders.
You won't ride faster using CCU, but they feel different.
Buy what you like, but honestly, going CCU is not what i would do.
I sold my CCU as i realized it was not better at all. It feels stiffer and it is more twitchy.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
wheelsONfire, what do you think of the braking on the Stream rims? Have you tried braking in the wet? I have used Enve SES 6.7 in the past - good enough braking in the dry, poor braking in the wet (probably no worse than can be expected of carbon). I'm thinking of getting Ax P55T but I want braking to be at least as good as Enve has been.
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- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
I switched to the Hub Doctor bearing adapter for my CCU's and seems to work great and would seem to fix the maintenance issue's.
I've had A LOT of wheels and really enjoy the CCU's.
I've had A LOT of wheels and really enjoy the CCU's.
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