Argonaut vs speedvagen vs baum vs firefly vs etc...

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Bely
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by Bely

I am not sure if this topic has been approached before - I sincerely hope not and hope that I offend no one by starting it again.

I am interested in a "independent" custom
Builder.. Can anyone provide the forum with some of the pros and cons of each of the more well known accessible brands?

Thank you all


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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128003

in .02 seconds looking...

The tip of the iceberg.


I'm exiting before the flame war.

Bely
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by Bely

That's a CF bike builder... I am kind of looking for all materials kind of thing


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Marin
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by Marin

You should upgrade your mobile 1st :D

RichTheRoadie
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by RichTheRoadie

Decide what features and material are important to you, then pick the one that you most like the look of - if you can genuinely afford any of these then that's really what it comes down to.

Anyone who owns one will tell you why the choice they made is the one to go for, yet any of them are going to blow you away. There is no 'best' here.

Bely
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by Bely

@marin - I try to stay basic with the mobile so the governments can't Track me ;)


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morrisond
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by morrisond

I've just bought an Speedvagen and an Argonaut and almost bought Firefly or Baum a few times so here's my 2 cents.

Speedvagen - I lust after there bikes. There are so many subtle details that are unique to these bikes - SS's, dropouts, brake bridges - Carbon Seat Tubes, Carbon ISP Head, Unique Head tubes.

I just got it (a Rugged Road Disc with 9000 and Hydraulic's) in the 2014 Vanilla Team Colors in an Overt Scheme. Awesome bike - Rides great - Fits perfect.

They were great to deal with Direct - it only took 12 weeks start to finish - very accomodating of unique requests - they mounted a pump for me in the ISP attached to the SV top cap where the battery usually goes if it were electronic.

It was a great custom experience. I haven't weighed it but with with the Carbon Seattube and ISP and S3 tubing - it sure doesn't feel that heavy. Definitely seems like good value.

Argonaut - Still waiting for it although it started 6 weeks before the Speedvagen - although Ben did move States so I do have to cut him some slack - but even with the move he promised it by Christmas...

I love the fact that they are doing something very unique - you won't see another bike with the same shaping - Pretty good at accomodating unique requests. I can't wait to see and ride it.

BAUM - I used to love these but getting a little tired of there paint schemes - not very durable paint (I've heard this from many sources) looks great in pictures - not as great in Person. Being a Big Guy at 100KG+ for me my Baum would be straight gauge ti - a lot of money for straight gauge.

I tried to build one twice but it took a long time to hear back from them and they weren't very accomodating on unique schemes - only to see them do something similar months later.

Firefly - Nice bikes and great Drop outs - but pretty expensive for a bike that uses stock Tubing and Paragon parts. I was put off a little bit by wait times only to find out for an extra $700-900 (I can't remember the number) I could get a rush and get it done sooner as they had one rush spot left. I talked to them a few times and they always had a rush spot....Basically just a gouge in my opinion. Nice guys though.

My favourite Ti right now is the No.22 Reactor with the Carbon seat tube. Great looking bike in person and quite reasonable price.

They are all Great builders but do realize that unless they are doing something unique you are paying a lot for the brand of essentially off the shelf parts. There is a lot of unique in a Speedvagen or Argonaut - Baum - if it's fully butted - Firefly not so much. How much are you willing to pay for nice welds? Although all there work is excellent and No.22 looks as good as Firefly.

The easy answer is get one of each!

martinko
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by martinko

I am not sure whether this is enough independent custom, but it certainly got my attention when I was looking for a new frame. Ok, it is aluminium, maybe heavier than top CF frames, but we also ride CAADs here, right? :)
Bowman Palace

http://bowman-cycles.com/frames/

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Bely
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by Bely

@morrisond - thank you that was really helpful!


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jbaillie
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by jbaillie

Come on, you know that with these four builders you know you're going to get an amazing bike no matter what. I love my Firefly, but I also have the benefit of being in the same city and knowing one of those guys for over a decade so I'm always going to be biased.

If I were going with a non-Firefly, I think I'm going Speedvagen. Just so clean.
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verbs4us
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by verbs4us

One other consideration: Firefly does both Ti and stainless, but far more Ti than stainless. I think because there are just more tubing options these days in Ti. So if you lust for stainless, there might be builders with more experience. IF does a stainless frame and probably has more through-put than Firefly. Sounds like you can't make a wrong decision.

RichTheRoadie
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by RichTheRoadie

verbs4us wrote:So if you lust for stainless, there might be builders with more experience. IF does a stainless frame and probably has more through-put than Firefly.

You realise the guys at Firefly are ex-IF and Fat City, right?... They setup Firefly when IF moved to a place they didn't want to follow.

Very few folk in the industry have as much experience as Tyler and co.

pamountainbiker
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by pamountainbiker

I'll weigh in on my experience with Mosaic titanium, even though it wasn't mentioned previously in the list. I have an RT-1 which is Mosaic's top end ti model. Double butted, custom butted tubes, tapered Enve fork, internal Di2 routing, internal rear brake cable. I've got rim calipers, but they'll also readily do disc if that's your desire. My bike is basically the equivalent of a 54CM essentially (it's completely custom) and the entire thing with pedals weighs 15.97 pounds. Let me put that into perspective, full DA 9000, Carbon November Rail 34 clinchers (great but not the lightest rims), Fizik Arione R1, DA pedals, all aluminum cockpit and seatpost. It's a smart build but no where near weigh weenie and it's still 15.97 pounds with pedals. I just got Bicycling May edition and pretty much all of the carbon super bikes weigh that much when you include pedals. So really, I'm giving up nothing in weight.

The ride quality is sublime, it really is. The ti is very lively, it emits a certain "buzz" at speed and you can feel every crease in the road, but it's not harsh in anyway. The bike is immensely stiff, at least for me. The tubes are huge, but thin gauge, the rear seatstays are 12 mm to balance the huge tubes. Torsional rigidity at the headtube is superb. It's point and shoot. The compare the ride of the Mosaic to say carbon and specifically a Parlee Z3, the ride is much more lively. Again, a certain buzz comes through that's neither fatiguing or annoying, you can literally feel what the road is doing. I credit the wheels too and the fact that I run about 80 PSI in the tires. In contrast to high end carbon the ride is less damped, so if you're coming from a high end carbon expect that more road buzz is going to come through. Riding both though, I don't see a disadvantage and I have or have had bikes in all different materials. The craftsmanship is up there with th best. Incredible welds, machined BB shells and headtubes (I have a BSA BB, threaded!), internal routing via small ti tube inside the toptube, awesome subtle graphics, internally reinforced Di2 ports (they look absolutely seamless). The team at Mosaic is beyond first rate. besides being incredible crafts folk they also ride hard and race. So all the innovations that carry through aren't marketing hype, they're tested by people who are eating the dog food.

One more thing - in contrast to my other ti bikes, this bike is not what you'd expect ride quality wise. It's tight, taut with the feeling of total power transfer. I'm not the strong rider or heaviest (145), but on my other ti bikes I can rub the front der and I can noticeably sense flex in the front triangle on fast, tight sweepers. The thing I really like about the Mosaic is that it is rock solid. Honestly the only other bikes I'd consider beyond Mosaic is Argonaut which was mentioned earlier. And frankly, the biggest endorsement I can give of the RT-1 is that I'm getting another.

tinozee
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by tinozee

Haha the main welder at Firefly used to make frames for IF for like a decade. Get a firefly if you want utmost quality. Pretty much, Tyler knows how to weld better than anyone else. Check out their insta for some nice daily pics. I want a xcr frame from them so bad.

Also, I seriously doubt those guys would gouge anyone at all, they are genuinely nice people. I think "rush" just bumps you up in the wait line. They are booked solid as far as I know, constantly making new customs.

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by RyanH

A guy I know recently got a FF and based on his experience I wouldn't order one. He paid the rush fee, but it was delivered in the timeline quoted for non-rush. He also specc'd it with a zero setback isp and was supposed to get a ti one. They didn't send him one and told him that basically, too bad, we don't make a zero setback one so you're not going to get it,even though it was in the spec.

You're paying an awful lot for regular tubes.

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