Help me choose..C60 or Dogma F8?
Moderator: robbosmans
I agree that in terms of carbon quality, finish etc. Colnago is much better than F8. Dogma was nice but F8 is generic looking. That does not mean it is not a top performing frame.
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@fogman - I loved the old pinarellos, the Princes, Prince SL, Mag Dogma, (of which all were owned and ridden) until I owned and rode the Dogma 65.1 - which was extremely disappointing.. I honestly can't say anything about the F8 as I have never actually ridden one but from what I have heard its a vast improvement from the 65.1.
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Current
Festka Scala | Pego Respo | English V3 | Colnago EPS Erik Zabel | Colnago V4rs
Incoming
Festka Scala | Pego Respo | English V3 | Colnago EPS Erik Zabel | Colnago V4rs
Incoming
CEVelo,
After having ridden a newly built C-60 for 1500 miles over the past months, I might be able to offer you some insight. Not all good. The build (Campy Super Record RS Gruppo, Campy Shamal Ultra 2-way fit and Cinelli Neos cockpit and post) was a challenge installing the BB86 properly. My mechanic, who has been the go to Colnago guy in my area for three decades had to contact Colnago directly to get advise on installing the Campy BB86 in the C60's proprietary interface to prevent creaking. Colnago recommended a retainer specific Loctite. Prior to finding him, several quality mechanics could not get it right. Once properly installed, all good. It's a wonderful, fast all around performer. Very torsionally rigid, while still being quite comfortable on very long rides. Good feel with lively responsiveness. It's a status symbol ride no doubt because for that kind of money it should be absolutely phenomenal. But it's not. Good ride yes, absolutely phenomenal, no. There are better, faster more comfortable performers out there for less money. Significantly less money. The rear drop outs are one of the worst designs I've seen and speaking with several other C-60 owners, there have been several warranty items with these breaking. Independent of the breakage issue, quick releases have to be clocked correctly or you'll nick the finish of the outside corners. Bike does not descend as well as you would think an Italian race machine should comparatively speaking, again considering the cost of the frame.... I recently experienced severe speed wobbles on a 55 mile an hour descent. No bueno. If you are into lots of ooohs and aaahhhs, you'll get those because they are stunning to look at.
I have no experience with the F8 so I can't comment. Good luck! My C-60 was sold recently for near asking price. New owner is very happy!
After having ridden a newly built C-60 for 1500 miles over the past months, I might be able to offer you some insight. Not all good. The build (Campy Super Record RS Gruppo, Campy Shamal Ultra 2-way fit and Cinelli Neos cockpit and post) was a challenge installing the BB86 properly. My mechanic, who has been the go to Colnago guy in my area for three decades had to contact Colnago directly to get advise on installing the Campy BB86 in the C60's proprietary interface to prevent creaking. Colnago recommended a retainer specific Loctite. Prior to finding him, several quality mechanics could not get it right. Once properly installed, all good. It's a wonderful, fast all around performer. Very torsionally rigid, while still being quite comfortable on very long rides. Good feel with lively responsiveness. It's a status symbol ride no doubt because for that kind of money it should be absolutely phenomenal. But it's not. Good ride yes, absolutely phenomenal, no. There are better, faster more comfortable performers out there for less money. Significantly less money. The rear drop outs are one of the worst designs I've seen and speaking with several other C-60 owners, there have been several warranty items with these breaking. Independent of the breakage issue, quick releases have to be clocked correctly or you'll nick the finish of the outside corners. Bike does not descend as well as you would think an Italian race machine should comparatively speaking, again considering the cost of the frame.... I recently experienced severe speed wobbles on a 55 mile an hour descent. No bueno. If you are into lots of ooohs and aaahhhs, you'll get those because they are stunning to look at.
I have no experience with the F8 so I can't comment. Good luck! My C-60 was sold recently for near asking price. New owner is very happy!
Last edited by drmarg on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 6.03kg
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
2014 BMC TeamElite 01 MTB 9.07kg
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
2014 BMC TeamElite 01 MTB 9.07kg
Don't know the specifics on the breakage point. Just reporting a conversation with another C-60 owner who had to warranty his frame and had a buddy do the same. The drop out has a relatively thin shroud of carbon around the upper two thirds. Perhaps this thin shroud is breaking when a quick release is not tightened properly or just bumped by a hard object. As a said in my post, both corners of the shroud are vulnerable if you are not paying attention. Just not the best design from a durability standpoint. Overall my point is simple. We all work hard for our loot so when we buy a $6200 frame and fork, every aspect has to be right!
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 6.03kg
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
2014 BMC TeamElite 01 MTB 9.07kg
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
2014 BMC TeamElite 01 MTB 9.07kg
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Sorry to hear about the experience drmrg. I've had nothing but a great experience on my C59, but when i factor in frame cost and Colnago dropping the threaded bottom bracket I've already started looking at custom Titanium frames such as Firefly & Kelly Bedford. Won't be soon though, having too much fun on the current bike.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels
So far, only 1 person with negative feedback on the C60?
Are there anyone having issues with either the F8 or the C60? (Quality, fit, ride etc.)
For the most part, there is only positive reviews on both (as excepted).
I am confused as ever. Will try out a C60 at my LBS next weekend (hopefully) and also go try the F8. Finally found places that will accommodate it. Have the groupset ordered (DA Di2, Stages, and will run Enve 3.4 wheels) so now it's only the frame left.
Are there anyone having issues with either the F8 or the C60? (Quality, fit, ride etc.)
For the most part, there is only positive reviews on both (as excepted).
I am confused as ever. Will try out a C60 at my LBS next weekend (hopefully) and also go try the F8. Finally found places that will accommodate it. Have the groupset ordered (DA Di2, Stages, and will run Enve 3.4 wheels) so now it's only the frame left.
I've got a C59 and a C60. I'am surprised re the comments on the handling. That's one it's fortes in my opinion. I believe the geometry is the same C59 to C60 and the earlier frame was always known for its handling. The rear drop out design does mean you have to be careful with where you position the QR, but for me at least it's no big deal. As to rear drop out breakage I can't comment mine are good so far! BB as with any press fit does need care when assembling. The Colnago screw in shell means if there is a future problem you can replace the shell in the frame. I've already drawn up a solution that I'll machine up if the standard parts do creak but again so far so good.
Its only natural that the ride quality of a frame or component measured differently to us. We not born equal, right? If a frame gives you the ride quality and look you want plus it carries some kind of intrinsic value that is hard to be replaced. Go for it please! No need for second thought. My traditional geometry KOM colour C59 gives me the ride quality and look I want plus it is also one of the few Italian made frame with a very strong character and features that is very unique to me. I didn't think twice!
If you have trouble making up your mind between two frames after subjective findings as well as facts searching. Perhaps, you should consider getting both. No kidding! That's how most of us end up having more than one bike. You get it
If you have trouble making up your mind between two frames after subjective findings as well as facts searching. Perhaps, you should consider getting both. No kidding! That's how most of us end up having more than one bike. You get it
Colnago C59 KOM
Colnago Extreme-C KOM
Ciocc Aquila Genius tubing
Colnago Master Olympic
Colnago Extreme-C KOM
Ciocc Aquila Genius tubing
Colnago Master Olympic
CEVelo wrote:So far, only 1 person with negative feedback on the C60?
Are there anyone having issues with either the F8 or the C60? (Quality, fit, ride etc.)
For the most part, there is only positive reviews on both (as excepted).
I am confused as ever. Will try out a C60 at my LBS next weekend (hopefully) and also go try the F8. Finally found places that will accommodate it. Have the groupset ordered (DA Di2, Stages, and will run Enve 3.4 wheels) so now it's only the frame left.
I have not ridden the C-60 but I own the F8(3k miles now). I have zero bad experiences and only good things to say though. I'm happy that I didn't go full aero bike because I feel that the F8 does not comprimise any ride feel and handling yet has some aero benefits. Its an aggressive bike but very comfortable on long rides.
What you are doing is the right thing by riding them both. Hopefully, you can use the same wheels saddle and bar tape(lol) so you can level the playing field to get the best bike for you. I was able to get two day(w/ Enve 3.4) in on an F8 before I pulled the trigger. I don't understand how anyone drops this kind of money without throwing a leg over one.
From reading on this forum is seems that Colnago gets the higher praises for desireability which may be founded ( I don't know) but it also comes from those that don't own either. Good luck.
fromtrektocolnago wrote:LionelB wrote:CEVelo wrote:F8 owners, do you feel that you can easily ride 80+ mile rides on the F8 without getting 'beat up', e.g. similar to what is the hallmark description of the Colnago ride quality?
Yes, really not a problem at all.
I read all these posts about riders going to 25mm for ride comfort. Sounds like compensating for an overly stiff frame. I'm on 23mm on my C-59 and don't feel any such need.
I ride 23mm tires on Enve 65 Classics and the F8 and it's very stiff and still very comfortable. Not sure where there is anyone saying its not a comfortable bike. I previously rode( still own) an amazing Giant TCR ADV SL w/ ISP and the F8 is much stiffer and more comfortable.
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CEVelo,
It's great that you get to try both frames before buying. Sometimes getting a real test ride before buying is tough to do. Didn't mean to confuse you, just reporting my experience based on 30 years of riding and racing all kinds of high end bikes. Get the one that turns you on the most and enjoy. You are looking at two exceptional rides. You really can't go wrong! I love the reply that has you buying both!!! If you do choose the C-60 you now have some knowledge on the care involved with the BB86 install assuming you are looking at Campy. The pro that built my C-60 runs Dura Ace Di2 and could not be happier. Not a single issue with creaking or special adhesives!! I tested this very C-60 and I gotta say, if I had it to do over again, I would strongly consider this build. But then that's a whole new thread (which we all look forward to!) Get the most experienced builder possible. Just a heads up! One other opinion you might seek is Tim Medina, owner of Wrench Science in Berkeley, CA. He sells both frames and gets a lot of feedback from riders. Man is a storehouse of information and does not mind sharing the information independent of where you buy the bike.
Good luck. Keep us posted!!!
It's great that you get to try both frames before buying. Sometimes getting a real test ride before buying is tough to do. Didn't mean to confuse you, just reporting my experience based on 30 years of riding and racing all kinds of high end bikes. Get the one that turns you on the most and enjoy. You are looking at two exceptional rides. You really can't go wrong! I love the reply that has you buying both!!! If you do choose the C-60 you now have some knowledge on the care involved with the BB86 install assuming you are looking at Campy. The pro that built my C-60 runs Dura Ace Di2 and could not be happier. Not a single issue with creaking or special adhesives!! I tested this very C-60 and I gotta say, if I had it to do over again, I would strongly consider this build. But then that's a whole new thread (which we all look forward to!) Get the most experienced builder possible. Just a heads up! One other opinion you might seek is Tim Medina, owner of Wrench Science in Berkeley, CA. He sells both frames and gets a lot of feedback from riders. Man is a storehouse of information and does not mind sharing the information independent of where you buy the bike.
Good luck. Keep us posted!!!
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 6.03kg
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
2014 BMC TeamElite 01 MTB 9.07kg
2015 TREK Emonda Project One 5.44kg
2014 BMC TeamElite 01 MTB 9.07kg