Help me choose..C60 or Dogma F8?

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catbill
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by catbill

Its very hard to believe that you know very little about bike if you can short listed two of the most well known brands in frame building for your bike project. I don't think you got those two names just by chance. Did you?

So, my say is....GET BOTH! May be one at a time and if cash is on your side, "JUST DO THEM". Some spend millions on cars, audio, watches, etc.... What you are about to do is much more justify and healthier in comparison. Spoil yourself while you can. Life isn't that long when you are rich.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I would buy F8 without any question, or Time Skylon over Colnago C60.
Last edited by wheelsONfire on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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drmarg
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by drmarg

wheelsONfire wrote: or Time Skylon over Colnago C60.


Now there's a statement! Topic for a whole new thread. A French frame made from carbon fiber tubing that is actually manufactured by the respective frame builder versus an Italian beauty that sources it's carbon fiber from the far east and assembles in Italy utilizing lugs. Can't comment too much here but the word on the street is Time is the ultimate bike. Whenever I speak with Time owners, all I get is smiles! Has any one else seen the beautiful new Lemond bikes built by Time? The 1986 Limited Edition is matte clear coated carbon weave with paint representing all Tour de France jersey colors on the inner surfaces. I have seen the bike in person and it would, without a doubt be on my short list.

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CEVelo
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by CEVelo

Finally made some decisions.

A new build is now in progress: Dogma F8, Naked Red, Full DA Di2, Stages PM, Enve 3.4SES.
So many great reviews and I do love the look of it. Figure this will become my go to ride for quite some time.

Now...deciding on next build is easier :) Will probably be a Classic color C60 with Campy mechanical. Yet, could also be a dedicated lightweight climber, like a Willier Zero 7 or Cervelo R5.

N+1 is edging closer to S-1.

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drmarg
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by drmarg

Wow! Congrats CEVelo! What a sexy ride especially with the DA Di2 components. Had the pleasure of test riding a C-60 with this gruppo. It changed my attitude toward electronic shifting instantly. Really works well. Now for the build thread hopefully with lots of pics. You'll get some good input on the next important decision; wheelset. Huge implications on ultimate ride quality and reaping ALL the benefits of a great carbon fiber frame.
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CEVelo
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by CEVelo

Will use my existing wheelsets for now: Enve 3.4 SES and Dura Ace C24 for rainy days.

What other wheels that would make the ride even better? I love the ride and performance of the Enve 3.4s.
I am considering adding a very light wheelset for climbing days to my stable (not sure what will beat the C24s if i stay with clinchers, perhaps a low profile carbon clincher?)

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

My Enve 3.4 have light hubs(elf+extralite).. so they basically weigh the same as my C24's ... if you wanna go really light might as well get tubs.
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ANV
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by ANV

A Friend of mine has U 28C - Ultra Road Clincher 28 from AX lightness. They come in at 1065g He is very happy with them. But if you are happy with how your enve rims felt so far I would go for the enve classic C25 laced up with some tune hubs. I think Fair wheel offers this combination.

But if I were you I would rather get my hands on a new set of 4.5SES laced with some tune hubs.

CEVelo
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by CEVelo

Agree. I actually prefer my ENVE 3.4SES CK45 for climbing as opposed to the C24s (stiffer, less break rub if i stand up pushing), the minor weight difference doesn't seem to matter at all. Perhaps the Enve C25s with a light hub would be ideal. The 4.5SES are tempting too, but hard to imagine they would be noticeable different vs. the 3.4s.

bombertodd
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by bombertodd

Stiffer rims will have more brake rub. Softer rims will flex on the bottom when mashing on the pedals but the top of the rim will stay closer to center between the pads.

mimason
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by mimason

CEVelo wrote:What other wheels that would make the ride even better?
I am considering adding a very light wheelset for climbing days to my stable (not sure what will beat the C24s if i stay with clinchers, perhaps a low profile carbon clincher?)


Better? Tubulars would be an option for a better ride. Otherwise, its hard to beat the 3.4s unless you want to play with latex tubes and some supple rubber. You mentioned light so the ENVE 25s are good options and for safety tubulars for descending would be ideal.

teokim
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by teokim

In design, Dogma is better

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drmarg
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by drmarg

CEVelo wrote:What other wheels that would make the ride even better? I love the ride and performance of the Enve 3.4s.
I am considering adding a very light wheelset for climbing days to my stable (not sure what will beat the C24s if i stay with clinchers, perhaps a low profile carbon clincher?)


Your Enve's are good wheels. To get the full bang for your buck on any quality carbon frame, I strongly feel quality carbon rims are the ticket. It's amazing to me how many riders are on world class carbon frames and not feeling/realizing their potential for both feel and performance; emphasis on feel. The carbon ride is softer, way more forgiving and ultimately faster. I've ridden Zipps, Enve's, Bontrager Aeolus, Mavic R-SYS SL's (aluminum), Lightweight Meilenstein C's and AX Lightness Ultra 24 tubulars; the latter being my current climbers. As mentioned, you already own a great pair of carbon wheels for fast training and all around use. If you want to make the jump to light tubulars for climbing, I suggest:

1. Lightweight Gipfelsturm's. Yeah I know they are expensive, but what you get is a world class ride commensurate with your world class frame purchase. Construction is first rate.
2. AX Lightness Ultra 24's (Vittoria Corsa CX tubular). I just rode these Saturday for the first time on a big ride. 120 miles with 12000 feet of climbing. They performed really well but certainly would not recommend them as your daily rider. If you buy them through Belatti Sport, they are actually not too expensive. This Swiss dealer is very reliable!
3. The previous recommendation (by ANV) for the AX Lightness clinchers would be a solid choice if you just do not want to hassle with tubulars. It is my hope that the Gipfelsturm's will be available as clinchers one day soon. I'd buy them in a flash!
4. Take a good look at the light Campy offerings. The brake surface is superior, and their hubs roll great. Would be a cool pairing with your Italian frame.

One important consideration in choosing climbers is they must also descend well. If there is too much flex, they'll scare the crap out of you at high speeds. It's windy in the mountains and I would strongly encourage you to keep your rim profile below 30mm. One good gust on a pair of 50mm rims and you'll know it. There are drawbacks to carbon rims on fast descents. If you engage the breaks constantly, you can burn both your break pads and the clear coat finish on the rims themselves. Plus, they are not the ticket in wet weather. Many manufacturer's are improving their carbon offerings to mitigate these concerns. On the ride last Saturday using the AX's and Swisstop Prince pads, there is a very steep, very technical descent known as Deer Valley just north of Malibu, CA. Anyone who has ridden this knows how dangerous this descent can be. I slowed by pulsing the breaks a lot, allowing the pads and rims to cool intermittently. No damage to the rims or pads. I did the same descent last year on a pair of Zipp 202's and did not pulse the breaks burning up the pads in 10 minutes!

Have fun!
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TonyM
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by TonyM

You could also go for the Campagnolo Hyperon Clincher...But the weight is not attractive compared to the Bora35 Ultra (1345g vs. 1370g Bora 35 Ultra) :roll:
And even less attractive to the possible Gipfelstrum clincher which could be 1025g + extra 80 g for the clincher version so in total 1105 g :thumbup: I would also buy these immediately :beerchug:
On the other side which advantages would these Gipfelstrum have compared to the Meilenstein ? the lower height of the Gipfelsturm rim bring less crosswind effect, right ? Is there any other adavantages ?

I have a pair of alu clincher for the mountains (Fulcrum Racing Zero nite - 1420g) and I have just ordered a pair of LW Meilenstein SchwarzED Clincher 1180g for the hilly region where I also live.
My search for a real mountain wheelset which should be very light and excellent/ safe in braking in the mountains is not that easy.
I have skipped the AX Lightness Clincher due to their average reviews (braking issues) and as they don't have ceramic bearings (surely a mental advantage).
This mountain wheelset should be better than my current set of Fulcrum Racing Zero Nite Clincher and my LW Meilenstein Clincher :P

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drmarg
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by drmarg

TonyM wrote:Gipfelstrum clincher which could be 1025g + extra 80 g for the clincher version so in total 1105 g. I would also buy these immediately


Tony,
The Gipfelsturms are available as clinchers? I could not find these on their website??? This would be one great climber set!!! I currently run the AX Ultra 24 tubulars. No issues.....
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