LIGHTWEIGHT wheelset owners, can U ever come back or can U?

[TonyM]

I am quite suprised concerning the debate here as the question is not if the LW are the best wheelset ever, but rather if the "LIGHTWEIGHT wheelset owners can ever come back ?"

So it is about the subjective impression of the LW owners if they are more than pleased with their LW.
Objective reasons are here not so relevant.

I think we should respect their statement
Whatever why they are so pleased.

[sawyer]

2) Pros absolutely ride what their sponsors sell. To suggest otherwise is laughable.

Maybe now but that's one of the things that made them so famous.

Both statement are indeed right!

Nowdays, there is not much room for personal decisions in the peloton...

Sometimes ago, pros could sometimes decide themselves, at least some of the pros...for example the LW were ridden from Jan Ulrich during the Tour de France (both German).

Hi - your statement implies the demise of LWs in the pro peloton is down to contractual terms rather than the opposition catching up.

I think it's more likely the latter ... plus the important facts that (1) there is a 6.8kg weight limit (remember there wasn't when LWs first came out), and (2) it's easy to hit that limit on normal kit ... ergo the benefit of LWs is not therefore weight (other than the LW disc for TTs, where many bikes are still over the limit ... and lo and behold unsurprisingly you do still see relatively more LWs there...)

I'm not sure there's any evidence it's actually become harder for a top pro to deviate from standard team equipment?

[TonyM]

Yes, the 6.8 kg weight limit indeed reduces the search for "lighter than light" at least for the bike itself

The pros in all sports have to comply with the sponsors of the team in terms of equipment Of course there are exception, but only exception

[Slagter]

I am quite suprised concerning the debate here as [u]the question is not if the LW are the best wheelset ever, but rather if the "LIGHTWEIGHT wheelset owners can ever come back ?"

That is true, but the debate quickly turned into: Are LWs the best performing wheels, which IMO and apparently in others too, is much more interesting - the OPs question is a bit boring and confusing especially since OP screwed the title up.

[Tinea Pedis]

If you´re training, why even bother with expensive wheels?

Because plenty of people nowadays don't race. I haven't been riding still for all that long, yet even so the amount of increase in those who are simply just recreational riders and have no interest in racing has noticeably increased. I have no issues whatsoever in those people riding what we would call 'race wheels' on their daily rides.

As to professional use of LW's - I have been informed by people who would know that several riders in the pro peloton not only buy their own and ride them but also agree to pay 'penalty' costs for using them instead of the team's sponsored wheels - in some instances amounting to many thousands of dollars per race. Doesn't make me go faster but interesting to know how highly they are regarded.

Can only see that would be in reference to the disk. As photo evidence (and the fact Pros really aren't paid nearly enough to afford thousands of dollars of fines per race) says otherwise.

Not many of their road wheels spotted in the peloton in recent years.

[Liggero]

LW with discs... you gotta be kidding me. The ultimate dentist dream.

And of course, clincher, so you have the worst of both worlds in the same package; disc on one side, and carbon clincher on the other. At least they are light. For a dentist looking for the worst of all worlds, I would definitely recommend enve or zipp wheelsets, with carbon clincher and discs; they tick all the requirements;

- Heavy
- Expensive
- Discs
- Carbon clincher, so brake track can deform and or explode your tubes and kill you in the process
- They even have those huge banners for making advertising of the brand, so not only they are a rip off, but you also advertise them for free. Awesome!!!

A dentist dream, right there!! At least they are handmade in the USA instead of exploiting asians and avoiding taxes... Whe need more dentists.

[mattr]

Not many of their road wheels spotted in the peloton in recent years.

of course not, pros are interested in fastest, which as we all know isn't the same as lightest. So why use a wheel that potentially isn't as fast as something your sponsor might provide, and get in trouble for doing it?
You'd have to be pretty thick to do that.

[Mario Jr.]

Today, all the product sponsors are paying such big amounts to the teams that no one are allowed to ride anything else. This is also why you see so few equipment brands on the World Tour, compared to 5-10 years ago. So even if somebody wanted to use non-sponsor material, it would breach the contract and cost the team a fortune.
Has anybody seen the mess it made because José Louis Sanchez rode on different wheels than FFWD and also on an other time trial bike last year? All this ended in court, and it was just a Pro Conti team. The contracts the World Tour teams has, are much more elaborate. Trust me, I have seen a few.
But this is a natural thing, as the equipment sponsoring are a bigger part of it all nowadays. Team Trek, Shimano - Alpecin, Cannondale ect. Also when eg. Shimano is making an offer to a team, the amount they offer is of course depending on how big a package the team takes. If they choose not to ride Shimano wheels, it's because they have an other wheel sponsor willing to pay more than Shimano for using their wheels. And if the team agrees on a deal, you can be sure that the contract is very clear that the given sponsors material needs to be used exclusively! So you don't see any exotic wheels any more on Pro Tour teams. Maybe at the worlds, where most of the riders can choose whatever they want.

As for the LW's qualities, I have a set of LW Meilenstein and a set of ENVE 6.7. On flat courses, the Enve's are faster, but the LW's are hands down the funniest wheels I have owned as they are so stiff, light and responsive. I have owned Bora, Reynolds, etc. But the Meilensteins are the wheels I would choose, if I only had one top set of wheels. I also have a set of Standard Gen.3 earlier and these were noticably more unstable in the wind than the Meilensteins. The finish and especially the braking is much better on the new version, too.

[Liggero]

Not many of their road wheels spotted in the peloton in recent years.

of course not, pros are interested in fastest, which as we all know isn't the same as lightest. So why use a wheel that potentially isn't as fast as something your sponsor might provide, and get in trouble for doing it?
You'd have to be pretty thick to do that.

No, definitely no.

A few years ago, quite recently, some riders did use out of sponsorship material. Nowadays, it never ever happens. Sponsors don't allow it anymore. never. that is why, it is not because lightweight wheels are not faster than the rest. in fact, aero is overstated, not just for us, who ride an average of 25km/h, but also for pro riders who do 45km/h average; LW wheels accelerate so much better after every braking, and that makes you faster than aero. but they are not alowed to use them, that is why...

The level of this forum has reduced increasingly. I used to hear and listen, now i have to come and explain....

[sawyer]

MarioJn - that is interesting and I always like to hear your view!

You'll appreciate though that it isn't really suffiicent evidence just to accept what we might call the "pro LW hypothesis" that it is contractual terms that primarily accounts for LWs near dissappearance from pro bikes.

As you say, there are events, Worlds, Olympics etc, where pro team sponsorship terms don't apply (though some other arrangements might), however despite that, LWs are not significantly more common at those events either ...

Given the information lacuna we have on the specific point of the increased importance of contractual terms, I certainly wouldn't rule it out as part of the explanation for LWs' near dissappearance from pro bikes, but tend to think (1) the existence of
a 6.8kg min and (2) the competition catching up, are more convincing explanatory factors.

I struggle with the idea that a Contador or a Froome couldn't write into his contract that he reserved the right to use LWs.

[Harmitc]

Not many of their road wheels spotted in the peloton in recent years.

of course not, pros are interested in fastest, which as we all know isn't the same as lightest. So why use a wheel that potentially isn't as fast as something your sponsor might provide, and get in trouble for doing it?
You'd have to be pretty thick to do that.

No, definitely no.

A few years ago, quite recently, some riders did use out of sponsorship material. Nowadays, it never ever happens. Sponsors don't allow it anymore. never. that is why, it is not because lightweight wheels are not faster than the rest. in fact, aero is overstated, not just for us, who ride an average of 25km/h, but also for pro riders who do 45km/h average; LW wheels accelerate so much better after every braking, and that makes you faster than aero. but they are not alowed to use them, that is why...

The level of this forum has reduced increasingly. I used to hear and listen, now i have to come and explain....

I read fairly recently in a UK article that the rear LW disc is being used by a few riders even though the team runs another manufacturers wheels. The disc is much easier to "hide" and rebrand. The std LW wheel is very different and easily visible so totally understand why it wouldn't happen. But it did in the past and was extensively documented by the press.

I think this thread is going nowhere now? At this level, I think the wheels are probably better than the rider. Enjoy whatever you have or want.[emoji106]

[mattr]

The level of this forum has reduced increasingly. I used to hear and listen, now i have to come and explain....

stand down everyone, liggero has "explained" everything.

[sawyer]

The level of this forum has reduced increasingly. I used to hear and listen, now i have to come and explain....

stand down everyone, liggero has "explained" everything.

LOL- er ... 25km/h average remember ...

Is that with a puncture? Presumably not with LWs?

[Slagter]

I think this thread is going nowhere now? At this level, I think the wheels are probably better than the rider. Enjoy whatever you have or want.[emoji106]

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[beanbiken]

I think this thread is going nowhere now? At this level, I think the wheels are probably better than the rider. Enjoy whatever you have or want.

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