Help with size for Canyon Aeroad purchase

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mickiii
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:32 pm

by mickiii

Hi,

Time for a new bike, this time my eyes are set on the new Canyon Aeroad CF SLX, however I am not sure about the sizes. I currently ride a Cervelo S5 size 54, which fits me fine. I am 1.78 cm, 70kg and inseam is about 82 cm. I have a longish torso, and rather small legs. When I use Canyon's online calculator, it suggests a size 53 (S). I have tried to compare the two geometries, but I do not have proper knowledge about this, to estimate whether this size is correct, so I am hoping someone in here can help me decide. Unfortunately I live far from a Canyon showroom, so I have no way of trying it before buying.

For easier reference, here are the comparable geometries (as far as I can see), for the S5 and the Aeroad in S an M.

Cervelo S5
Head tube Angle: 73,1
Top Tube: 548
Head Tube Length: 148
Rear Centre: 405
Stack: 555
Reach: 378
Effective Seat Tube Angle: 73

Canyon Aeroad (S)
Head tube Angle: 72,75
Top Tube: 549
Head Tube Length: 130
Rear Centre: 410
Stack: 533
Reach: 391
Effective Seat Tube Angle: 73,5

Canyon Aeroad (M)
Head tube Angle: 73,25
Top Tube: 560
Head Tube Length: 147
Rear Centre: 410
Stack: 551
Reach: 397
Effective Seat Tube Angle: 73,5

Thanks in advance :D

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fa63
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

What length stem do you use with your Cervelo and how much (mm) spacers under the stem?

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

if you are not running (at least?) a 110mm stem on your S5 (maybe squeeze a 100mm but not ideal) the aeroad is not the bike for you.
is you went small, you would likely have a 90mm stem pointing up. you could get it, and then spend time working on your mobility.
if you went with the medium you would have a dinky 80mm stem of a similar angle / degree and on top of spacers similar to your s5.
A have in the passed used a 80mm stem on a CX bike. people would advise against a 80mm stem on a race bike.

i feel your pain. i want an aeroad.

but as fa63 said,

1) how much (mm) spacers + headset cap (mm) is their between your top of head tube and your stem
2) what is the size (mm), angle (degrees) and orientation (up / down) of S5 stem?

i love this stuff (replicating bike fit), happy to go into detail with you.

surprised that the S5 has such "comfort/sportive" fit.

mickiii
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:32 pm

by mickiii

Glad you guys can help me out with this :thumbup:

I am running a 110mm stem, 3T ARX team on my current S5. Looking at the 3T website, the angles are set to: ±6, ±17°. Handlebars are 3T ergonova, 42cm and I have 20mm spacers under the stem.

I am unsure of which headset I am running (currently at work, so can't check), but I use the one that cam with the frameset. According to the Cervelo website, it should be this: FSA IS2 1-1/8 x 1-3/8"

Once again, I really appreciate your help.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

is it a 6 or a 17 degree stem? (probably 6 i would guess)
do you have the stem pointed up or down?
(with a 6 degree stem it doesn't matter so much)

canyon aeroad SLX comes with 25mm of spacers (2 x 10mm and 1 x 5) and the headset cap (the cone shaped this below the spacers is 16mm)

if you could measure the cone shaped headset cap on your s5 that would help to be accurate.

to get the same height of bars, you would probably need to size up to the medium and then ask canyon to provide a 90mm stem (it comes with a 100mm stem / 172.5 cranks) - you could possibly manage on a small with a flipped up stem

because of the flat top tube the standover is going to be around 80-82 cm

once you get the measurements and the current orientation of your stem / size of cone headset spacer it'll be clearer if you have small as an option, with your short legs the small would be the better option - but unless you are prepared to use a flipped up stem and / or work on your flexibility and move the bars down a couple of cm you would need the medium - and the medium isn't ideal because of your short legs (standover).

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

wait ... according to this

http://www.cervelo.com/media/docs/S5-Ge ... bc30-0.pdf

Where did you get your stated Geo for the S5 from?
you need to be sure - i don't know if S5 geo has ever been changed


the Geo of the s5 in size 54 is not what you stated and is 542 / 384 (stack / reach)
this would make a small aerorad a little easier. as the aurora comes with 5mm more spacers than you use
if your S5 reach is 384 then you have 7mm extra reach on the Aeroad so a 100mm stem (small comes with 90mm) would be closest.



Measure the height of the S5 headset cap / cone spacer

if it is like the second image (5mm or maybe 10mm) then the aeroad in size small is likely doable.

Eg is it big like
Image

or thin like this
Image

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fa63
Posts: 2533
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

Cervelo changed the geometry on the S5 when they last updated the frame for last year.

Also keep in mind the seat angle on the Cervelo is half degree slacker, which means the Canyon is an additional ~5mm longer than the Cervelo.

That said, if you are running 20 mm of spacers under the stem right now with a flipped-down stem, I doubt you will be able to make a size S Aeroad work without resorting to an upturned stem, and even then you will need bunch of spacers under the stem.

On the other hand, you will need at least 2 cm shorter stem with a size M Aeroad. Using a 90 mm stem on a M frame would not be ideal, but wouldn't be the end of the world. Or you could use the 100 mm stem that comes with the bike and see if your body can get used to the extra extension. Another option would be to use a short-reach handlebar to compensate for the longer stem, if you are not already doing so.

Good luck.
Last edited by fa63 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

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MartyWild
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:38 pm

by MartyWild

I wanted one of these bad boys so went had a Pro Retul 3D fitting done, he didn't think the Aeroad was suitable for my short torso and long legs! Sad times it was! =(

mickiii
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:32 pm

by mickiii

Darn, you're right, I missed that the geometry was updated on the new S5. Mine is from 2012, and after a bit of searching I found the old geometry here: http://www.artscyclery.com/Cervelo_S5_Team_Ultegra_2012/descpage-CV2S5U.html

Cervelo S5 (updated)
Head tube Angle: 73,1
Top Tube: 548
Head Tube Length: 154
Rear Centre: 405
Stack: 555
Reach: 378
Effective Seat Tube Angle: 73

My current stem is negative 6 degrees and I just measured the spacers including the headset beneath the stem, which is 28mm. My current handlebar is a compact model 3T Ergonova, so that compensates a bit for the 110mm stem I am using now I guess.

I am looking to buy the 8.0 DI2, which comes with the integrated handlebar, where the S carries a 90mm stem, and the M is equipped with a 100mm stem.

Based on all your very helpful comments, I am leaning towards the M. Does the above updated information change that? If S, then which handlebar length do you recommend and vice versa with the M? I find this geometry matching super difficult to wrap my head around, so I really appreciate all your comments.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

Regarding Fit - all you need is to understand stack and reach and to use a tool such as
http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

Stack
Aeroroad Medium = 551
S5 sz 54 = 555

Aeroroad spacers = 25mm on top of a 16mm headset cap
current S5 = 28mm headset + spacers

Aeroad SMALL size stack = 533 + 16mm headset + 25mm spacers -> TOTAL = 574mm
S5 sz 54 stack = 555 + 28mm headset + spacers 28mm (your measurement) = 583mm
Aeroad Medium = 551 + 25 + 16 = 592mm

basically the Small size bars would be 9mm lower at full spacers - perhaps this is acceptable? Would be nervous personally. especially consider the unknown stem angle (more angle = lower)

The Medium would mean you were "in between" the spacers - with some spacers above and some below. More sensible and less risky.

it looks like the aeroad integrated stem bars are quite flat - possibly a 10-12 degree stem - again a reason to go for the medium over the small as you would have ~10mm spacers above the stem assuming a 6 deg stem - so the medium gives you a little wiggle room
(the difference between a 6 and a 12 degree 90mm stem is 9mm)

The top tube would be quite high, with the standover probably quite close to your inseam length (or bollocks as some call them)

REACH -

Ergonova Pro bars (Dont know if other Ergonova have different measurement ?)
Drop: 123 mm
Reach: 77 mm

Canyon bars
reach = 70
drop = 128
Image

So the canyon bars are 7mm less than your current - so lets take 7mm off the reach measurement of the canyon

Canyon - 397 (bar differential) = 390
S5 = 378
-------------------------->10mm shorter stem than your S5

so assuming your saddle is in the same position in relation to the BB

with a 100mm stem on a medium aeroad a similar set up.


ps. i would guess that you saddle would be ~6mm further back on your saddle rails on the Aeroroad
(the result of the 0.5 degree seatube angle difference @ approx your inseam measurement)
-------------

Medium with 100mm would be to current fit.

anyone plz correct me if wrong

edited this post to correct errors point out below (originally took the 7mm bars difference off the wrong frame :oops: !) : (
Last edited by jeffy on Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 5 times in total.

cyclenutnz
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Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
Contact:

by cyclenutnz

AS you can see from the comparison below the 100mm stem with 18mm of spacers (on top of the 16mm headset) would match the bar stack exactly. Once you take account of the 7mm shorter reach on the canyon bars the reach will be exactly the same too.
Small would be a bad choice for you

Image
Attachments
Canyon.PNG

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

cyclenutnz, what program is that?

we don't know for sure that the canyon aerobar stem is 6 degrees -
not sure how i made my mistake (edit: i took the 7mm off the S5 rather than the Abroad) but you are right
19mm reach difference between frame - 7mm difference between bars would mean that a 100mm stem should work on a medium

remember you can choose between 39mm and 41mm bars with the 100mm.

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IchDien
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 am
Location: Veneto

by IchDien

I'm in a similar situation here Cervelo S5>Aeroad SLX...trying to figure out what size to get.

Cycling inseam of 87cm, overall height of 183cm, long torso short legs. I feel like I could get a bit more saddle to bar drop to be honest but not much. The fit calculator is trying to put me on a L but I feel like I might not have enough standover height.

Current saddle height from centre of BB is 78cm.

Can anyone much better at this please help?

Image

by Weenie


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jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

unfortunately Canyon do not list standover height, but i *think* a reliable estimate is max standover ~ = Stack + 27cm (27 = approx height of center of BB to ground)
so the large canyon at most could be 85cm. I assume you have a sloping S5 from the standover height

Certainly with the stack height of the S5 being so high, the Medium Canyon would be considerably lower. -
although looking at your spacers and headset cap you could just about get there.

between the S5 (56) and the Aeroad (L) the reach difference is 16mm

so the stem on Canyon would need to be 16mm shorter (+/- difference in bars reach)

unless i am mistaken, from your chart the 16mm longer reach of the Canyon frame is pretty much cancelled out bt the shorter reach of the bars (19mm).
- i *think* that the 3mm shorter would probably be *almost* cancelled out by what looks like the flatter than 6 degreee stem on canyon the int/aero bars
IE: possibly use the same size stem on Aeroad (L) as S5 (56)
with the M Canyon you would either go for the 130mm stem (a little shorter than current fit) or 140mm (not available with int-aero bars) which would be a little longer.

difficult choice. but i would maybe go with the L

perhaps a way to think about it, is thinking of your current bike fit, which would be worse for the bars:
closer and lower, or further and higher - ?

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