Engage broken frame

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rovale
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:22 pm

by rovale

Hi, 2 weeks ago I bought on ebay a complete bike directly from ax- lightness, an Engage clade E11, size 52.5. Usually I use 53 / 53.5 frame so was good for me, only have to extend the stem. When the parcel arrived I discovered that the frame was cracked, immediately I contacted ax-lightness after sales service demanding the replacement. They said that the frame would be replaced with a size 55 frame, the last one they have in store.
Too big for me, so I asked for it to be replaced with an ax-lightness vial evo frame size 54 a little more big than I usually use but also good for me. I was willing to pay the difference.
The price list difference between two frames is 700 euro ( Engage clade was 2590 Vial evo was 3290 ) Well, Ax-lightness asked me 2100 euro, yes you've got it right 2100euro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then I asked was replaced the frame with the same brand and size and asked were refunded to me 200 Euros asked me by my LBS for the bike disassembly, reassembly and cables replacement . Ax said that they have no intention of supporting this expense and told me to return at my cost the bike, that is already paid and than they will change the frame with a 55cm frame and send back to me the bike . You must know shipping from Italy to Germany would cost me about 150/200 Euros. Is this a normal behavior ? Does a brand like ax-lightness usually extremely badly treat their customers or I'm unlucky?
Any idea? Any suggestion?

Thanks in advance
Last edited by Frankie - B on Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited the topic title so it would be coherent with the message body.

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

When I was looking at the Vial Evo I heard it from someone heavily involved in selling AX Lightness that Axel never saw a warranty request that he agreed with...

First thing I would do though is find out what your actual consumer rights are. Many countries have government services where you can get advice on any form of civil dispute and find out where you stand, since sometimes companies will try and force you to accept what they offer even if you're entitled to a better solution. For instance, usually in the EU the seller is responsible for return costs of a faulty item, maybe eBay sales are different, I don't know.

by Weenie


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mike
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by mike

Sounds like a shipping company issue? May have recieved damage during delivery.

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Pokerface07
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:43 pm

by Pokerface07

File a claim with eBay and Paypal. If nothing else, it will cover you for the cost of the original purchase, plus shipping costs to return. Any costs above that are your own responsibility.

to sure why you paid €200 to strip the bike down to the frame though.
Twitter: @FormerTTchamp https://twitter.com/FormerTTchamp

mike
Resident Pro
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:42 pm

by mike

Ebay always sides with the buyer. You could file a claim with them. But you will likely not get a good ressponse from axel. .ed

rovale
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:22 pm

by rovale

Pokerface07 wrote:File a claim with eBay and Paypal. If nothing else, it will cover you for the cost of the original purchase, plus shipping costs to return. Any costs above that are your own responsibility.

to sure why you paid €200 to strip the bike down to the frame though.


Hi, Paypal will not refound shipping cost to return excluding 30euro.
My mechanics said it's better to change cables and asked 140/150 euro to strip and re-built the bike plus 50 euro for new cables

Many thaNKS to you

stormur
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by stormur

rovale wrote:Any idea? Any suggestion?




Yes.

1. File a claim @ Paypal, recover money - then and ONLY WHEN seller will refund shipping § in advance return bicycle. Otherwise just don't.
2. Give negative feedback @ eBay,
3. Do not never ever buy anything from them
4. Share story with as many bike forums as your time allow

That kind of "customer care" which is clearly illegal, should affect their future sale.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

Tom-s
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Location: Holland/Belgium

by Tom-s

Edit: Zip.
Last edited by Tom-s on Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pokerface07
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:43 pm

by Pokerface07

rovale wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:File a claim with eBay and Paypal. If nothing else, it will cover you for the cost of the original purchase, plus shipping costs to return. Any costs above that are your own responsibility.

to sure why you paid €200 to strip the bike down to the frame though.


Hi, Paypal will not refound shipping cost to return excluding 30euro.
My mechanics said it's better to change cables and asked 140/150 euro to strip and re-built the bike plus 50 euro for new cables

Many thaNKS to you



Well, seeing as the frame is already broken, you can send it back via the cheapest shipping method possible. No need to insure it.

I'm still confused why you decided to rebuild a bike that you said was clearly broken when it arrived.
Twitter: @FormerTTchamp https://twitter.com/FormerTTchamp

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Oh, i am sorry for you rovale.

May i ask, how much did you pay for your frame?
MSRP is not really interesting as all Engage products are at discount.
My guess is that you paid alot less for this frame than 2590, i've seen it alot cheaper.
€1190+2100=3290. So if you paid €1190 it is a good deal (if you have 2100 to spend that is!).
I think if you deduct that price that you actually paid for your frame, from €3290, you'll have a fair price and perhaps you can try to sort this with your insurance on the shipping?
Let's say you paid 1600 Euro, i think you could deduct that from 3290 and that is the price i should check if insurance company could pay you since Engage does not make products anymore.
Or possibly, shipping company endorse you the amount the frame was insured for what ever amount that was.

Most shipping companies have insurance so check this with them.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

rovale
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:22 pm

by rovale

Pokerface07 wrote:
rovale wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:File a claim with eBay and Paypal. If nothing else, it will cover you for the cost of the original purchase, plus shipping costs to return. Any costs above that are your own responsibility.

to sure why you paid €200 to strip the bike down to the frame though.


Hi, Paypal will not refound shipping cost to return excluding 30euro.
My mechanics said it's better to change cables and asked 140/150 euro to strip and re-built the bike plus 50 euro for new cables

Many thaNKS to you



Well, seeing as the frame is already broken, you can send it back via the cheapest shipping method possible. No need to insure it.

I'm still confused why you decided to rebuild a bike that you said was clearly broken when it arrived.




Hi, I decided to rebuilt the bike becouse AX shipped to me an entire bike already built, but as sostitution they would send me only a new frame ( wrong size) so I would have to disassemle and rebuilt the bike


Thanks

rovale
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:22 pm

by rovale

wheelsONfire wrote:Oh, i am sorry for you rovale.

May i ask, how much did you pay for your frame?
MSRP is not really interesting as all Engage products are at discount.
My guess is that you paid alot less for this frame than 2590, i've seen it alot cheaper.
€1190+2100=3290. So if you paid €1190 it is a good deal (if you have 2100 to spend that is!).
I think if you deduct that price that you actually paid for your frame, from €3290, you'll have a fair price and perhaps you can try to sort this with your insurance on the shipping?
Let's say you paid 1600 Euro, i think you could deduct that from 3290 and that is the price i should check if insurance company could pay you since Engage does not make products anymore.
Or possibly, shipping company endorse you the amount the frame was insured for what ever amount that was.

Most shipping companies have insurance so check this with them.


Hi wheelsONfire, I paid for yhe bike 2800 euro, won an Ebay auction. I didn't know that Engage will not make products anymore, they didn't specify on Ebay description if I knew I never made an offer. It was a complete show bike with very low km
The problem is that they say have not no more engage frame, only one that is too big for me.
I know was a show bike but probably the damage wasn't do to delivery in fact the parcel was entire with any sign of damage,
I think was shipped already.......

About insurance it will be the seller ask refound of damages.

Many thanks for your solidarity

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PSM
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...

by PSM

:oops: :?:
Last edited by PSM on Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AXAxel
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:24 pm

by AXAxel

Concerning the case and associated issue: Customer service of course is very important to us, the case however seems pretty different from our side than described.

1.) Headline: "AX LIGHTNESS BROKEN FRAME"
Implies that a VIAL evo frame broke during use.
However in fact we are talking about an engage Clade e11 frame PLUS as can easily be seen from the pictures the frame was damaged during transport
Image Image

2.) Item / product:
This is about a complete USED bicycle, not a new product. Sold on eBay for a total of EUR 2800.00

3.) Pricing
The sale price of a NEW engage Clade e11 frameset is EUR 999.00, sold on eBay as well.

4.) Offer
a.) We have offered a NEW replacement engage Clade e11 frame free of charge.

b.) Exchange for a NEW ax-lightness VIAL evo
Calculation for the upcharge of the pre-owned and used engage Clade e11 on a new ax-lightness VIAL evo:

List price ax-lightness VIAL evo EUR 3290.00
- sale price of NEW engage Clade e11 frameset EUR 999.00
___________________________________________________
= EUR 2291.00

We offered an upcharge of EUR 2100.00 despite of the engage Clade e11 not having been new to start with.

5.) Handling
The bike could have been disassembled and reassembled at a local bike shop which would have cost EUR 200.00.
We decided to make this in-house in order to not involve a 3rd party and to announce the damage with the insurance of the transportation company and have them inspect it at scene with us.

6.) Return
We asked to have the bike returned to us. We have not yet discussed the implied cost on this as we have not received an answer from the customer yet.

by Weenie


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rovale
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:22 pm

by rovale

AXAxel wrote:Concerning the case and associated issue: Customer service of course is very important to us, the case however seems pretty different from our side than described.

1.) Headline: "AX LIGHTNESS BROKEN FRAME"
Implies that a VIAL evo frame broke during use.
However in fact we are talking about an engage Clade e11 frame PLUS as can easily be seen from the pictures the frame was damaged during transport
Image Image

2.) Item / product:
This is about a complete USED bicycle, not a new product. Sold on eBay for a total of EUR 2800.00

3.) Pricing
The sale price of a NEW engage Clade e11 frameset is EUR 999.00, sold on eBay as well.

4.) Offer
a.) We have offered a NEW replacement engage Clade e11 frame free of charge.

b.) Exchange for a NEW ax-lightness VIAL evo
Calculation for the upcharge of the pre-owned and used engage Clade e11 on a new ax-lightness VIAL evo:

List price ax-lightness VIAL evo EUR 3290.00
- sale price of NEW engage Clade e11 frameset EUR 999.00
___________________________________________________
= EUR 2291.00

We offered an upcharge of EUR 2100.00 despite of the engage Clade e11 not having been new to start with.

5.) Handling
The bike could have been disassembled and reassembled at a local bike shop which would have cost EUR 200.00.
We decided to make this in-house in order to not involve a 3rd party and to announce the damage with the insurance of the transportation company and have them inspect it at scene with us.

6.) Return
We asked to have the bike returned to us. We have not yet discussed the implied cost on this as we have not received an answer from the customer yet.





Hi Axel


1) As I wrote in first email sent to you the parcel was entire with no damage only a little knock corresponding the rear quick realease then on the low of the parcel ( you can see the Photo you posted!!!!! this photo is regarding the knock caused by rear quick realese) I'm afraid you are a little wily.....you posted a photo not concerning the damage and you well know is a wrong photo.
The frame was broken on the top (orizzontal tube) and the parcel was with no damage on the top. Why don't you post the photo of the parcel????
You've got them

2)No one said was a new bike.

3)The sale price of a new Engage Clade is 2590 you can see on engage web page, I don't know if sold on ebay at 999.
In the description wasn't specify was a no more available carbon frame. If I knew I never made any offer.

4)You have offered me a 55cm size frame, I bought a 52,5 frame. You offered me replacement with a frame that not fit to me ( 55 instead 52.5) What can I do with a bike too big for me? I' 45 yars old I think I'll never grow anymore!!!!!!

5)I agree, You're right

6)You asked me to ship back the bike, that's all. You never mentioned you'll charge Ups for collect the parcel, only when I opened
a Paypal and Ebay dispute you make this proposal.

Cheers

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