Anyone running Latex Tubes with their Zipp 404s?

[MartyWild]

Heard scare stories saying the heat build up associated with CF brake tracked wheels can cause latex tubes to fail.

Is this true? Do you guys haver any experience in this matter?

Cheers!

[MartyWild]

Just seen this, was back in 2011 though so I guess technology has moved on a bit since then.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=95233

[boots2000]

I have always used latex tubes with my 303 FC clinchers.

[MartyWild]

On hilly terrain, big descents? Are you running the OEM pads and tape?

[superdx]

I had Schwable One tubulars, which had latex tubes on Zipp 202s. I was using the supplied Zipp Platinum grey pads.

On a 20 minute descent on 9-15% grades, it didn't pop or explode. The rim was extremely hot.

[eric01]

The issue is heat build up potentially blowing out the latex tube. Technology may have progressed but do you really want to risk it? Especially if the high temperatures are more likely to be reached on long fast descents


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[Kayrehn]

If the pros are using latex tubes/tubulars to compete I'm sure they'll more than hold up for you. Not that I know what they use, but it's easy to find out if you want. Just don't think they use mainly butyl tubes...

[eric01]

I meant latex tubes with carbon clinchers. I've been running vitorria tubulars with carbon wheels since 2007 --- all sorts of terrain including some 15% grade descents. never a problem.

Personally I wouldn't buy carbon clinchers. But if I had a pair, I'm run them with standard butyl not latex tubes.

Do some googling and a number of media outlets and manufacturers themselves advise against the cc + latex combo

[1415chris]

I don't use carbon clinchers but I would like to hear more mechanics and phisics than mambo jambo in this subject. If we take out of the equation the failure of the rim under the high temperature, inner tube's wrong instalation, isn't only the melting point which explains what we are talking abou here? If so what temperatures are involved and what the melting points for latex and butyl are?

I will quote Lennard Zinn:
"The inner tube type is irrelevant; the tire only explodes because the tire bead blows off the rim when it gets hot enough, and no tube could hold the pressure once it’s no longer constrained within the tire".
"While heat buildup in any clincher rim can be an issue during extended braking (see the melting glue problem mentioned above), it’s more of an issue with a clincher. The latest carbon clinchers from top brands, when coupled with the brake pads recommended by the manufacturer, are not likely to fail in this circumstance, but many carbon clinchers in the past have done so. Carbon is very strong under tension but not under compression, so asking it to form a rim wall capable of constraining the pressure of tire beads trying to push it outward is a big ask in the first place. Couple that with the fact that at some temperature, any resin holding the carbon matrix together will soften, and you can have rim walls that fold out like limp taco shells under hard braking. Again, this is a thing of the past for the top brands with the correct (and heavily studied) brake pads under riders who are not beyond a certain weight (and this weight will depend on the rims, braking style, the road steepness and curve sharpness, and the ambient temperature)."
//velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/tech-faq-all-about-carbon-clinchers_284201#F68jtCdw7t14Xcgp.99

[abjra]

I used latex tubes in my 404 clinchers this past season, no trouble for me on some pretty quick descents. Two things:

1) I only used them in racing
2) whenever talking about how "the pros use latex tubes" I think it's important to remember that those guys absolutely rip downhill and have closed roads, I'd wager they get less heat build up than joe schmoe dragging his brakes down a hill because they don't have cars and single lane to play in.

[sawyer]

I used latex tubes in my 404 clinchers this past season, no trouble for me on some pretty quick descents. Two things:

1) I only used them in racing
2) whenever talking about how "the pros use latex tubes" I think it's important to remember that those guys absolutely rip downhill and have closed roads, I'd wager they get less heat build up than joe schmoe dragging his brakes down a hill because they don't have cars and single lane to play in.

You are right on (2), and more to the point the pros are almost always on tubulars

[dereksmalls]

@Marty - where do you live? How long is yourlongest decent? how steep is it? How windy is it? How much do you drag your brakes when you brake? All these will come into play. I run Vredestein latex tubes with Veloflex Master tires and Enve 45 clinchers. Longest decent here is about 12 km, with switchbacks and probably only a 10% max greadient and I've never had a blow out - but then again Idon't drag my brakes - feather them. No big handfuls

[TimW]

This thread is good stuff. I've just got a pair of Cosmic 40C and was wanting to run Latex. Descents here are typically short (100m vertical) but steep (10%+) so it's heavy braking but for a short time at the bottom typically...sounds like it should be ok...

[Butcher]

I have Easton EC90 56mm clinchers with latex. Not a problem. Too much reading on the net causes me to be a little conservative on the descents. I have yet to have an issue yet.

[spookyload]

If it adds to the discussion, I have been running Vredestein latex tubes on my Reynolds Assaults for two years. I had a second set of Chinese clinchers that was running Vittoria latex tubes. Those tires and tubes are now on a pair of Reynolds Aero 32 wheels now. I have never had an issue with a latex tube and a clincher rim. A couple flats from goathead thorns, but that would happen with any tube. I have even patched both latex tube brands with standard patches and they have held. I live in a very hilly area and descents can range from 6-12 miles. As mentioned, don't ride your brakes the whole way down. That will blow out any tube that is on the carbon rim. There is no magic with butyl that makes it safer than latex for holding air.