Ciamillo Again

[jumpman]

Hi

I understand the topic regarding Ciamillo restructuring has been locked but I'm now desperate for some help.

I am a user of Ted's products with the Gravitas brakes since they were available. Early last year, I purchased a set of the Gravitas Crankset from CarbonLord. This was right when the products became available.

When it was installed, my local shop discovered that the crank spider was slightly warped, hard to see from sight but noticeable when ridden. I contacted Sabin at CarbonLord who was very quick to respond that Ted would arrange for a replacement spider to be sent out to me. This was May 2013.

I still did not receive any responses from Ted on a replacement until Sep 2013 when Sabin manage to confirm with Ted that he will be sending a complete crankset directly. In order to facilitate the process, I was to send my set back to Sabin and he will make arrangements for Ted to send me the new crankset upon receipt. I even received images of the revised crank.

My crankset was sent back and received by Ted mid Oct 2013 and after ongoing checks on status, I finally received an email from Ted on Nov 25 2013 that my replacement set would be sent out that week. Nothing happened.

In January 2014, Ted updated a status that the release of the product was on hold pending testing and the incorporation of a Powermeter. He suggested that if I can wait, he would get me a free power meter or else he would issue a refund. I responded with the fact that given I had waited for so long already, I could wait a tad more. We've had radio silence since then.

In July 2014, I finally decided I had waited long enough (over 1 year) and requested for a refund so I can move on and close this nightmare chapter of my biking life

I've had no luck getting any response from him, nor has Sabin who has been helping me resolve this. I no longer have a product nor do I have any refund...heck i dont even have an acknowledgement from Ted.

Am I the only one whos been given the runaround or are there others like me? Its just very very frustrating as I had in good faith wanted to support creative designers as Ted supposedly is only to be treated this way.

Danny

[SpinnerTim]

Jumpman,

Unfortunately, I've had a similar experience. In my case, I was lucky that the product was of the "Canary in the Coal Mine" variety: a small hardware kit to rebuild an old brake set. After the usual dance of promises, delays, radio silence and missed ship dates, I just moved on and sold the brakes "as is."

I'm not going to speak to any experience but my own, although I'd advise you to check the net to see how others have resolved their "experiences" with Ciamillo. If your story can be corroborated by the vendor, you have a basis for a BBB filing that might exert some pressure for a resolution on Ted's part.

Best,

Tim

[jumpman]

Thanks Tim. CarbonLord has been in the complete loop on the communications and has been trying his best to push Ted but to no avail. Beyond the legal route, I just wanted to see if the ww community can at least push him for a response as he seems to be more active here than via email.

[jumpman]

It was bought from CarbonLord but it was through agreement with Ted that he would handle the replacement directly thus Ted took my crankset back. When that happened, I would assume Ted decided to deal directly with a resolution with the customer.

[FIJIGabe]

The manufacturer, not the retailer, is responsible for the warranty. When you buy from "Shop A", and take it to "Shop B" for warranty work, "Shop B" is responsible for dealing with the manufacturer. The manufacturer may refer you to a shop for the work, simply because they don't staff a CS line for problems, but that isn't because the shop is responsible for the warranty.

Think about when you buy a car: you go to the dealer that gives you the best price, but you can take it to any other dealer in the country for warranty work. Also, you don't call the manufacturer for service, instead, you take it to your local dealer to have the work performed.

[mattr]

If you are in Europe the retailer is responsible for the warranty.

They may take it up with the manufacturer for a refund/replacement to the shop, or ask the manufacturer for technical support (mode of failure etc) but the contract is between the retailer and the customer.

Comparing it to a car warranty is pretty pointless, as the back end of the warranty system is completely different, and guarantees anyone carrying out the work gets paid for it. Whoever sold the car in the first place.

I doubt any bike manufacturer has enough cash to set up a global warranty system that'd work like even the most basic auto warranty system.....

[Johnny Rad]

...me thinks another promise is forthcoming.

Just you wait and see. And wait some more. Then wait some more.

[FIJIGabe]

If that's the case in Europe, what happens if you move? Your warranty is invalidated? You can only get your parts repaired at that one shop? What if they close?

[jpanspac]

I smell another thread lock coming...

[mattr]

If that's the case in Europe, what happens if you move? Your warranty is invalidated? You can only get your parts repaired at that one shop? What if they close?

Basically, yes.
Unless the brand has a reciprocal agreement in place to ensure that a phone call from your local dealer will ensure the refund from manufacturer to dealer is guaranteed. Some shops still refuse to deal with warranty if it was bought from another shop.
It's also why buying from other European countries is risky.

[Shallowhal]

If you are in Europe the retailer is responsible for the warranty.

I don't agree with that, at least for the UK, can you elaborate. Manufacturers are entirely responsible for the warranty. Prime example, customer takes bike frame with a fault back to a shop, shop immediately contacts manufacturer, frame gets sent back to manufacturer for checks, manufacturer makes decision whether or not to warranty the frame. The retailer is in no way liable other than to act as the go between/customer service.

[BRM]

If you are in Europe the retailer is responsible for the warranty.

I don't agree with that, at least for the UK, can you elaborate. Manufacturers are entirely responsible for the warranty. Prime example, customer takes bike frame with a fault back to a shop, shop immediately contacts manufacturer, frame gets sent back to manufacturer for checks, manufacturer makes decision whether or not to warranty the frame. The retailer is in no way liable other than to act as the go between/customer service.

According European consumerlaws.

You (the buyer) have a legal purchase-agreement with a retailer/shop, not with the manufacturer.
The obligations of the shop goes much further than only the warranty of the manufacturer.
Even after warranty time, the shop still have certain obligations to you.
However this depends on certain conditions and also can differ per product. The price of the product and the connected expectations.

When having issues, best thing you can do is to let it handle off by the shop.
So to follow your example: As the manufacturer rejects warranty claim, this will not directly mean that it there stops. The shop needs to solve things then by themselves, It is the responsibility of the shop. A shop needs to deliver goods that work and will work flawless for a certain timeperiod (depends on product, conditions etc)

[natiedean24]

Back up: he took your cranks and didn't give you a replacement or a refund. I'd call the cops on that thief. For reals.

[SLCBrandon]

Ted will PM you here....soon. Then promise you all kinds of stuff. Then.....nothing.

Why people keep trying their luck with him is beyond me. I love my GSL's and even want a pair of Micro's but I'm better off taking that money and betting once on black.

[elSid]

In January 2014, Ted updated a status that the release of the product was on hold pending testing and the incorporation of a Powermeter. He suggested that if I can wait, he would get me a free power meter or else he would issue a refund. I responded with the fact that given I had waited for so long already, I could wait a tad more. We've had radio silence since then.

In July 2014, I finally decided I had waited long enough (over 1 year) and requested for a refund so I can move on and close this nightmare chapter of my biking life
y

In Jan 2014, how long did he say you might wait before receiving either a new crank or a refund? I assume you had agreed on a more precise time frame than "a tad more."

I would send another note, this time as a certified letter, demanding a crank or refund within a reasonable time frame, such as 30 days. Be clear that on day 31, without one or the other, you will go straight to the police.