Headset not sitting right, steerer tube problem?

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ihs0yz
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:33 am

by ihs0yz

Hi everyone! Fairly new to the forums, I'll get to the "Introduce yourself" section when my upgrades arrive 8)

Anyway, so the issue here is...

I have a MC053 frame that I bought mid 2012, rode twice and didn't ride for a whole year after that. I was overseas for studies.
I got back around August this year and have been riding again and I noticed something about my headset.

Image

^ Headset not seated right and I did not notice this the whole time I had the bike because the rubber seal under the dust cap had been covering up all the silver stuff.. *facepalm*
But I don't understand how the LBS did not bother to bring this issue up to me? They did a very sloppy job with the cabling around the headtube as well and after seeing this I decided not to go to the same shop anymore.

So I dismantled the bike a little to figure out what the problem is.

So what I did was:
1. Slid the bearing down the steerer tube - that was fine until tapered section
2. Slid the compression ring down the steerer tube - that was fine until tapered section
3. Slid the bearing WITH compression ring down the steerer tube - stopped way before tapered section
4. Slid a spacer down the steerer tube - stopped where the bearing + compression ring did

Some pictures:

Image

^ Bearing only

Image

^ Compression ring only (Serial number sort of thing as distance reference)

Image

^ Compression ring AND bearing stopped way before serial number thing

Image

^ Spacer stopped where bearing + compression ring did

Image

^ Compression ring AND bearing will not go down further together

Image

^ I sit the bearing in first but the compression ring will not go down any further, this is why the dust cap left a gap in the beginning

So I suspect two problems:
1. Headset dimensions are off specifications of steerer tube
2. Possible abnormality in diameter of steerer tube

So I explored the second potential issue which I found out to be more likely as seen below:

Image

Does that look normal?

Anyway, I'm just looking for advice from everyone here. What should I do?
Do I buy a new headset? The upper bearing of the neco headset that came with the frame has an ID of 30.2mm compared to the 30.5mm ID of a similar Ritchey headset that other people have had luck with for the same frame. But I've looked around and I don't think the headset is out of spec. :noidea:
Can I sand that bulge down for the bearing and compression ring to pass? Is the bearing with compression ring in even suppose to pass?
I mean judging by the use of the compression ring, I would think it's meant to be compressed outwards to get a flush fit with the tube.

I've tried contacting my contact person and I didn't seem to be understood so I decided to just come here for your advice!
Thanks in advance guys :D

by Weenie


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rmerka
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by rmerka

Do the upper and lower bearing seat properly in the frame without the fork? If so, maybe a new fork is in order. Modifying, especially an already suspect carbon steerer tube, is nothing to trifle with imo. If the bearings won't seat properly in the frame, well...that would at least be an easier but not pleasant decision.

Svetty
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by Svetty

As I'm sure you already know the compression ring is compressed by the bolt in the bung at the top of the steerer tube. It's hard to judge how much this will compress the compression ring and force it further down the steerer tube when you tighten it - I assume that this was pretty tight when you were riding the bike and that further tightening wouldn't 'close the gap' (assuming the column of spacers is long enough?).

I'd be tempted to try another headset first - they aren't that expensive. If this doesn't work then I'd resort to very gently sanding the steerer tube - but only by the smallest amount needed to allow the compression ring - when compressed with an appropriate amount of torque on the top-cap bolt to sit low enough to be properly covered by the bearing cap.

I assume that the head-tube sits right down on the crown race at the bottom end? :)

5 8 5
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by 5 8 5

Agree with Svetty, the ring needs to be properly compressed. If it slid easliy into place there would be headset play.

It would be useful to see a pic of the underside of the bearing cover to see how much it's recessed.

Can't see from the pics but do you have a lot of steerer above the stem? The fork bung should be placed very close to the stem steerer bolts. If it's too high the steerer could be deformed when the stem is clamped.

eric
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by eric

I'll assume that since the headset came with the frame it's the right kind of headset.

The steerer looks like the problem. The spacer should slide farther down and there should not be light visible under the ruler held against it. I'd get a new fork. See if the seller will get you one under warranty. Measurements will help prove your case.

The shop that built it up should have spotted this.

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madcow
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by madcow

There's definitely a problem with that fork. I wouldn't attempt to modify the fork to make it work, I'd just get a new fork.

Even more concerning should be that the LBS let that leave their shop like that. Either the mechanic was aware of the problem and tried to hide it with the seal or the mechanic was not aware that it was a problem. Either way you shouldn't let that person work on your bike again.

Svetty
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by Svetty

Looking again at the photos, it looks as if the moulding at the top of the headtube isn't right. The bearing sits too proud of the headtube implying that the seat is too near the end of the tube.
Perhaps the real problem here is that the quality control of both frame and fork isn't quite up to the standard of the mainstream brands?
The steerer is probably structurally safe and the chances of getting the manufacturer to supply another is pretty slim. From where you are now I'd bodge it to get the best fit you can and just ride it.

eric
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by eric

Svetty wrote:Looking again at the photos, it looks as if the moulding at the top of the headtube isn't right. The bearing sits too proud of the headtube implying that the seat is too near the end of the tube


The bearing is not fully seated because the deformed fork steerer prevents it, according to the OP.

The fork should be removed to check how the bearing seats in the frame.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Wow, from the pic, it doesn't look like there's even enough recess in the headtube to accommodate a normal size bearing. It only looks about 3mm deep to me before the bevel starts, way shallower than the thickness of that bearing. Looks like the headtube has been faced and maybe way too much material removed? In any case, that just doesn't look right at all, from the frame's perspective, but it may be just the photos. :noidea:
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ihs0yz
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by ihs0yz

To all, upper and lower bearings sit fine in the headtube. No play when previously set up, which is why I never noticed the improperly installed headset.

5 8 5 wrote:It would be useful to see a pic of the underside of the bearing cover to see how much it's recessed.

Can't see from the pics but do you have a lot of steerer above the stem? The fork bung should be placed very close to the stem steerer bolts. If it's too high the steerer could be deformed when the stem is clamped.

I didn't get to take a picture of that but I've put everything back together and taking everything apart again isn't going to be the most convenient :oops:
But I have to say that the bearing cover looked like it had enough space to cover up everything IF the compression ring would sit in the bearing..

I have only about 25mm of spacer above the stem, was going to get that cut down further. Stem has approx 40mm stack height I believe.

eric wrote:The steerer looks like the problem. The spacer should slide farther down and there should not be light visible under the ruler held against it. I'd get a new fork. See if the seller will get you one under warranty. Measurements will help prove your case.

The shop that built it up should have spotted this.

madcow wrote:There's definitely a problem with that fork. I wouldn't attempt to modify the fork to make it work, I'd just get a new fork.

Even more concerning should be that the LBS let that leave their shop like that. Either the mechanic was aware of the problem and tried to hide it with the seal or the mechanic was not aware that it was a problem. Either way you shouldn't let that person work on your bike again.

Would you guys say that the steerer/fork actually has some abnormal diameter along the way? Just want to know if I'm speculating right!
And yes absolutely, I cannot understand how the LBS did not bother to inform me about the issue or if it was even noticed. Either way, as madcow has implied, the LBS was definitely incompetent.

Svetty wrote:Looking again at the photos, it looks as if the moulding at the top of the headtube isn't right. The bearing sits too proud of the headtube implying that the seat is too near the end of the tube.

The bearing dust cap is recessed so I believe if the compression ring actually sits in the bearing, the dust cap would cover everything up as intended.

Thanks so far to everyone :beerchug:

ihs0yz
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:33 am

by ihs0yz

Calnago wrote:Wow, from the pic, it doesn't look like there's even enough recess in the headtube to accommodate a normal size bearing. It only looks about 3mm deep to me before the bevel starts, way shallower than the thickness of that bearing. Looks like the headtube has been faced and maybe way too much material removed? In any case, that just doesn't look right at all, from the frame's perspective, but it may be just the photos. :noidea:


I think the bearing's suppose to stick out a little as seen in the pictures. The dust cap itself is recessed so it should "cup" down on the bearing and hiding it.
BUT I am not at all experienced with headsets so I'm not 100% if that would happen if all was well in the beginning.

Nice Colnago by the way! Gotta love the horizontal top tube (which is sort of why I got the MC053 in the beginning) :thumbup:

eric
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by eric

The fact that you can't slide the spacer all the way down the steerer to where the taper starts shows that it's misshapen or too large. The straight edge against the steerer shows light between the edge and the steerer where it should be flush. The steerer is messed up. It's what is preventing the top bearing from seating in the frame.

Your top bearing should seat farther in the frame. Try it without the fork.

Svetty
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by Svetty

I don't think anyone is disputing that the steerer is faulty - we get this! :roll: The question is how to best render the bike functional. A bearing with a marginally larger ID might achieve this, alternatively the OP could try gently sanding the steerer. Removing a fraction from the surface won't significantly weaken the steerer and will be safer than riding it with the gap in place and possibly excessive preload.
Last edited by Frankie - B on Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed the quote. this is a reply ;0

ihs0yz
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:33 am

by ihs0yz

I'm contemplating on getting a new fork.. But I could really save a good amount of money just by sanding it a teeny bit?
What does everyone think about the decision? I mean, the steerer IS bulging a little in excess at a point so technically I would only be removing the excess..

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

Maybe I'm missing something. But from the pics it looks like you've got tapered steertube which means a larger bottom bearing than top bearing. Yet you seemed concerned that the top bearing and compression ring wont go past where the steertube starts tapering. It won't, and it shouldnt'. It also looks like it goes plenty far enough down the steertube, unless your headtube is ridiculously short. Got a pic of the the headtube? To me it just looks like there isn't enough recess in the top of the headtube to accommodate the bearing. I get that it should stick up above a tiny bit to prevent the headset cover etc from binding on the frame while turning, and that is often accommodated by a few very thin shims. That bearing still looks like it's sticking up way too high from the frame. Are you saying it won't go down any further because it's bottoming out on the taper, because you'd have to have a very very short headtube for it to do that.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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