What makes the Record 11 speed chain so good?

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

sm4100
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:33 am

by sm4100

I used my Shimano 7800 for 9000 km I was 95 kg when I started and now 79 kg. All lost during these 9000 km. Just now the chain reached its limit according to the tool. Very smooth and strong chain. Just clean it and lubricate properly every 500 km and no worries

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I use KMC with Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo drivetrain, never an issue, I use a Chorus 11 speed chain on my wifes 6800 equipped bike, no porblems. I mostly fits Campagnolo chain though to campagnolo drivetrains partcilaury the high end ones.

The wear measurement techinique is important for campagnolo chains. If you use a chain checker it will show around 0.5% wear when the campagnolo method shows the chain is worn. This is an expensive mistake is you have a record or super record cassette.

I got a around 2000 miles from a record 10 speed chain this year before it reached its offical wear limit and I normally get 1500 miles from KMC chains before they reach the 0.75% wear limit. 9000km means it will be very worn indeed and the cassette will be toast. Evey time I see a chain that has done 2000 miles or more and try to fit a new chain on without changin the cassette, on the test ride kicking out some power skip, skip skip is the result. I do not bother now and just change the cassette if I see much more than 1% wear as the cassette will be worn. Using the ruler method is fine but 1/8" of stretch is about 1% wear over 12 links so I have no good way of seeing 0.75% stretch without guessing, which seems to be the point at which you can reuse the cassette around 3 times. Worth it on expensive cassettes.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
harmonix1234
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:13 am
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Contact:

by harmonix1234

Any suggestions on what chain is best with FSA chain rings? Been using KMC and not real happy with front shifting going from SRAM rings where it was smooth as silk.

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

bm0p700f wrote:I got a around 2000 miles from a record 10 speed chain this year before it reached its offical wear limit and I normally get 1500 miles from KMC chains before they reach the 0.75% wear limit. 9000km means it will be very worn indeed and the cassette will be toast. Evey time I see a chain that has done 2000 miles or more and try to fit a new chain on without changin the cassette, on the test ride kicking out some power skip, skip skip is the result. I do not bother now and just change the cassette if I see much more than 1% wear as the cassette will be worn. Using the ruler method is fine but 1/8" of stretch is about 1% wear over 12 links so I have no good way of seeing 0.75% stretch without guessing, which seems to be the point at which you can reuse the cassette around 3 times. Worth it on expensive cassettes.


Hi

To be fair there are two schools of thought on this ...

The purist school being to do as you say and change chains before they reach the wear limit, such that a new chain should work fine on the old cassette

The other is just to run a well maintained chain and cassette into the ground. This gets short shrift from some but is a viable alternative IME. I've had c20,000km out of a Record chain and cassette doing that ...

You have to factor in the time saving not having to fanny about measuring, buying and fitting new chains ... which for some of us is more valuable than the cassette or chain

btw - your posts are really useful for us Campagnolo riders
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

fogman
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 pm

by fogman

If you run the chain and cassette into the ground, won't you also run the chain rings into the ground?
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

fogman wrote:If you run the chain and cassette into the ground, won't you also run the chain rings into the ground?


No. Nowhere close IF

1. The chain is regularly cleaned and lubed. And I mean after every wet ride and after every couple of dry rides. Takes 2 minutes

2. You don't ride too much in the wet

But this applies generally whether the chain is new or not

Subject to 1 and 2 above chainrings will last a hell of a long time ... I have a set of Campag chainrings from 2007 still going fine and passing all the standard wear tests that must have 50,000km on them
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

sm4100
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:33 am

by sm4100

I would never change a chain with 2000 miles. There is just no reason to. One cassette can last easily reach 20.000km if cleaned and lubed properly. 2 chains / 1 cassette lifespan has been the rule I have used for more than 20 years pushing some nice wattage on KMC, Shimano, Campy and Sram over the years with no skipping, jumping whatsoever. Never had a broken chain. Just have the patience to clean almost every week. In fact I find the smoothest range of a group between 3000 to 5000 km. I m currently running a KMC11sl for more than 3000 km on a very rainy year and the chain looks and feels like new

Belisarius
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:36 pm

by Belisarius

Permon wrote:
Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:28 am
I dont ride Shimano...friends of mine do. What I understood is that Shimano chain lasts half of Campagnolo. Hard to say if it is true or not.
Since 2014, have 33,000 kms, with 2.5 summers missed due to protracted work in developping coutnries. Had left Shimano as a Chain and cassette since their 11 speed transition, which turned out garbage. At 5.8mm crappy metallurgy (by 11 speed requirements), Shimano chain is a short lifespain, unreliable noodle. Say some DreamEarth diluting Honda Civic. Campagnolo Super Record is a BMW, a 911. 5.3mm of ULSAB steel, it fhits slightly slower but more PRECISELY, settling in. It does not flex, twist, wind wagg like Shimano. TAK TAK TAK. At faster speeds Shimnao could overshoot, falsely engaging other T transition teeth being TOO WIDE for 11 Speed mechnisms.

All and all, the Campy chains usually lasted me 4000 kms, followed by a predictable softening. Shimano Dura Ace? 800kms, 2-3 weeks tops. In measurable terms, after so many trials and swaps of chains, Campy provides a steady 0.75 to 1km/hr speed advantage, measured by overall precision shifts, no grinding, better energy transfer.

The other secret I use is a SRAM 1190 Cassette, which also makes all DA cassettes since 9000, with their plastic core, feel like noodles as well. The overall Chain+ Cassette conveyes 1.5km/hr speed gain versus Shimano DA chain and cassette. Noticed people with newer, fancier bikes than my Giant and Columbus Italian. yet when I catch up, or crossing opposite sides of the street, the do not hear me. We can tell by the quieteness levels as to whom has a pro setup, or whom has a run of the mill all Shimano Dura Ace..

In the 10 Speed Era these issues were less noticeable as there was more space between the cogs. Less grinding, full metal solid Shimano casette. but since trying to catch up to SRAM and Campy, they went the plastic way, policing sponsored teams (!) jsut so they may not catche them with an embarassing casette and chain advantage swap...

Belisarius
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:36 pm

by Belisarius

istigatrice wrote:
Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:16 am
bm0p700f wrote:it is extremely stretch resistant.
Any ideas as to how it would compare with Shimano? Although experiences are probably going to be pretty subjective, but probably still interesting. Hope Fairwheel bikes does a chain review in the near future...
belated post but, 33,000 kms later, 8-20 chains, Shimano Dura Ace are a cheap noodle; the fastest wearing and loosening in 2 weeks. Campagnolo, on a Shimano system,. SRAM-1190 casette, is 0.75-1km hr faster, and usualyl lasts 4000 kms +/- 200km. I am also using the world's best unknown oil, system is always Rolex shiny and quiet.

why? ULSAB AC steel vs crappy rusting Civic metal sheet. Prius vs BMW/Porsche. It is also stiffer, at its loosest it is still more stiffer and more stable than Shimnao. less vibration, less resonance, less rotation (longitudinal rocking) better more stable, precise engagement. And, since Super Record is 5.3mm vs Shimano 5.8 or so, they clear better. Now, even on the 1190, they engage a fraction slower- though I counted 0.150 0.2 ms per cog or faster- but settles IMMEDIATELY with minimal energy loss. I nearly lost 2 Shimano DA that falsely engaged the adjacent cogs, and bent.

Campy SR Chain + 1190 casette + undisclosed oil conferred me a 1.5 km/hr advantage over Shimano benchmark miles.

Catch: 25-30Km/hr you will hear that Shimano, but not feel it. Above 30 kmhr, burst towards 40-45, is when the shimano limitations emerge with an anger.

There have been numerous alternate posts on the plastic Shimano Ultegra DA core casette issue, chain, redesigns, and Shimano threats to LBS 'resolving' the Shimnao failures by using Campy or SRAM parts. It even got as low as Shimano doing sponored team inspections to ensure someone did not mount a Campy on a Shimano system. NDA forbidding critical reviews.

Anyways, Campy chain is a superlative alloy, long life, with outstandign properties. if worth that km/hr gain, go for it. I buy SR 1 speed for 30$ discounted, six at a time at PBK or CR.

Post Reply