Experience with Sram PF30 : BSA adapter installation ?

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stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

I'm "religious" Rotor BB / adapters user , so haven't any troubles…until Campagnolo . Just rotor for Campy not exist, nor make adapter from PF30 to BSA :(

I bought adapter ( Sram Truvativ PF30:BSA ) , installed bearing cups, and tried to push them just a bit ( to hold only ) into bb… but they "flip" :( Cut -outs designed to hold adapter while screwing-in bb cups make initial installation impossible. I tried 2nd way- put them on the press, and then set-up, but they always slide aside :( ARGH!!!!

It's kind of "plastic" which is "oversized" to hold in compressed in BB shell, but question is how to install it ? - Pressing rotated can/ will damage BB shell….

Any experience with them ??
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

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highdraw

by highdraw

You will have to be more articulate about what your problem is if you want resolution. If you are using PF30 delrin bushings pressed into your PF30 46mm ID shell with a BB30/BSA conversion threaded sleeve with 42mm OD, this is really a poor choice to adapt a Campy crank to your PF30 bike.

I couldn't quite figure out what your problem is, but sounds like the theaded sleeve is turning inside the delrin bushings when you are trying to tighten the Campy threaded cups to the BSA sleeve.

Edit: I see you are from Finland and therefore English isn't your native language. Forgive me. If you have part names and model numbers of what you are installing, I will try to help you. Pictures help as well.

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

I believe OP is referring to this adapter.

The cups are screwed into the adapter, then it's pressed into the frame.

OP should be using the proper tool, and it's not clear what he is using.

No direct experience with these, but from my reading I believe some kind of locking compound is a good idea.

Image

And as a note to OP, the recently issued Praxis adapter for UT looks like a much better solution, in case this one does not work out.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

highdraw

by highdraw

Good catch on that bj. Seems to line up with what he wrote. No doubt there is an installation manual PDF for that BB. Do you have the name and model no. for that BB?

PS: and quite right, the Praxis BB is much less invasive and easier to install. Believe it was discussed with the OP in another thread.

As to adhesive, also agree. Since each half of that BB are not connected across the BB shell as in the case with Praxis, if the Campy threaded cup torque (spec) overcomes the interference fit of each side of that BB to BB shell ID, the BB will spin as the OP stated. Solution would be to press in each side independently with Loctite and let cure and then torque cups to spec.
But yes, the flats exist to torque the cups to spec prior to pressing the whole BB/threaded cup subassembly into the PF30 BB shell.

OP, my guess is you did not adhere to this procedure of torqueing threaded cups to BB halves prior to pressing in each sub assembly.
Campy cups are torqued with a standard Shimano BB socket or spanner. Campy cup torque spec is 25.8 ft-lbs or N-m equivalent. Use a large crescent wrench or soft chuck vise to hold the flats of the BB on each side and then press in each side 'after' torquing parts together.

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Here's an example of a retailer with the adapter. No part# and I cannot find any reference to it on the SRAM site, so I'm wondering if they have disowned it. Notice these guys include some loctite 609. And make reference to using a headset press.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=40529
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

highdraw

by highdraw

I'm just not a fan of the design because it doesn't solve the issue of lack of connection between both sides which although not essential is much preferred when having bearing bores outside a press fit as in the case of threaded cups that are pressed in. Praxis is MUCH more solid and more simple.

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Agree. Although until Praxis came out with their UT specific adapter fairly recently, the only choices to get a UT crank into a PF30 frame were Campy's PF30 adapter which was heavily criticised, maybe Parlee which looked similar, and the SRAM one here, which looked at least to be better than those.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

highdraw

by highdraw

Yeah. Basically Praxis revolutionized Campy UT for BB/PF30. Product of the year if you are a Campy guy. Lots of BB/PF30 frames around.

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

mäy bet ingish :( ;)


So, as you see adapter in the post above : there are 2 "cut-outs" which purpose is to hold adapter for screwing in cups. And during installation of the adapter ( already with cups ) , slightly attached to bb shell simply won't hold alignment - flip side to side making adapter pressing in ( with PT press tool ) to bb shell impossible . When I try to press them anyway they start to go out of alignment- so it stopped and removed them … afraid to damage bb shell.

grease/ loctite case is irrelevant, I can put even finest whisky there- won't help ;)

Only idea of delrin adapter is not so bad… it work well for bb86 f.e. .


BTW , I search stores in EU for Praxis adapters , and … nothing. No one is selling them in Europe ??? :(


Idea with PF30:bsa adpater was " I use what I have " - if I have to order Praxis from U.S. it will take 2-3 weeks to arrive, customs… Month. Lost.

Shiny Bikes have NEW UT PF30 adapter from Campagnolo, but no answer about possibility of buying it without new groupset …
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Not trying to be rude but -------- is your BB shell 46mm diameter? ie PF30 diameter?

If it is and you were using the correct tool (or a home made version), I don't understand why you would have this problem.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

highdraw

by highdraw

I'm with bj. Stormur, something is getting lost in your English as good as it is.
So, if you want a more solid answer, you will need to post pictures of your problem.
Good luck.
If you own venier calipers, measure the BB shell ID hole. It should be 46.0mm. You do know to remove any bushings from your PF30 BB shell right? Sorry if that's obvious. If you can't get the bushings halves to press in straight, your technique needs work. One at a time...not both at the same time. You may need a proper BB30 press tool that will push the bushing/BB half in square with the proper threaded plug to guide the BB into the shell. If you are trying to do this with a threaded rod and large washer, the washer can tilt on the threaded rod and this takes more skill to control. One BB half at a time is much easier to control the perpendicularity of the BB into the shell. Don't try to push in both BB halves at the same time. The canting you speak of is likely the inner cylinder edge of one half catching on the other half. If you press one side in first, when you align the other side, you will get enough overlap of the inner cylinder inside the BB to not try to push out the other side due to misalignment. We need pictures for greater clarity.

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

Sorry / no offence / but we can skip explaining long time "mac" user that macbook has no "start" icon on desktop ;) ( clips, shell diameter, how to use press tool… )

I pressed bb cups in various press fit many times… never had issue with measuring /accuracy and solving lack of it / of bb shell, clips, agents+retainer……..

That's why I asked for EXPERIENCE with EXACTLY this product - it behave completely different than anything else I saw / installed. From my point of view , this adapter is simply useless… It seems that diameter of adapter is bit to big, material bit to stiff ( won't compress enough ) and there's zero lip for initial installation . On steel/ Ti / Alu frame I would "experiment" , but with CF- rather …no.

BTW there's plenty of info in the net where to buy it, but ZERO installation experience ( video ) … for good reason, I believe.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

highdraw

by highdraw

Stormer,
You are talking to two guys that have likely installed a lot more BB's than you have.

We have no idea what experience level you have. Honestly, I would never come here for advice because I don't need any. I come here...bikerjulio is also very knowledgeable, to help guys like yourself that need a bit of help or at least some validation their thinking is OK.

So maybe you do need advice or maybe you want affirmation of what you suspect. The reason there is little experience with that product is because it isn't mainstream or common and perhaps explains it is less than a good design. You state you have a no build condition. You can't get the parts together. Do you know what an adverse tolerance stack up is? When manufacturing tolerances, i.e. too large a BB cup diameter = 46.xx >>PF30 carbon shell I.D.= 45.99? Then there is eccentricity or tolerance of each diameter in 2 planes, x and y. Although rare, your BB may not be buildable....sounds like it. No chamfer...or little chamfer for lead in, and the modulus of elasticity (google it) of material of the BB which no doubt is an acetal (google it) or hard nylon is incompressible. Translation? No build unless you are willing to use higher press force which you say you are not which btw, is fully understandable.

There are other BB's out there you can use to mount your Campy crank. You could even use delrin PF30 cups + Campy Press fit cups (redesigned for 2015 for better retention) with Loctite until you get ahold of a Praxis BB designed for Campy UT shipped to your country which you said will delay your build.

Good luck.

For your reading pleasure. :) Why Loctite is suggested for Campy Press fit cups in PF30:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=93006

User avatar
bikerjulio
Posts: 1900
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Just forget it and get the Praxis adapter.

Available in the UK, here http://www.gbcycles.co.uk/p/50198/Praxis-Works-Campagnolo-BB-Converters-UltraTorque
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

bikerjulio - Thanks ! Cups ordered :)

highdraw -

my nick is stormur, not stormer.

You wrote "...I would never come here for advice because I don't need any…" .

So, it looks like you write posts here, to read them later ? (isn't it : "I talk to myself because I like to talk to intelligent people and even more I like to listen them … ? ;) )


Sorry- no offence, but if you already know "everything"... it has to be not so much of it …


I think it was a bit justified sarcasm… you couldn't read even title of my topic with understanding… It starts from word "EXPERIENCE"… you answered haven't any with Sram PF:BSA adapter :( . ( I hope that I wrote "experience" correctly, so you understood it properly… ;) )


--------------------------

I checked shell and adapter sizing / compatibility, accuracy of manufacturing @ all planes /. I always do that. But I'm not able to check/ test composite ( adpater ) elasticity : here / initially/ I have to trust manufacturers declaration that they engineered it properly. That's theory only in case of Sram adpater. Same as proper design for installation. that's my thought's.

But I always have some reasonable amount of doubts ( comes with age (?), knowledge(?) ) . So , MAYBE THERE IS A WAY , but I don't know it ( someone's practice comes in help then ) , maybe I have certain kind of "blindness" to not see -obvious- solution ? Maybe ( possibly ) not, but if ? Then I will learn something :)


Anyway, topic can be closed . Case is over.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

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