Help me pick a new bike? Dogma f8?

[LionelB]

No issue so far. The campy SRM is sweet, brings the price up though

[fromtrektocolnago]

I ride Colnagos primarily. Not by any means the lightest bikes around these days. But neither am I the lightest bike rider. There is a lot to be said for that "planted feel" you mention. I haven't owned a Pinarello myself, but have friends who do, and I've worked on them. Very solid. Fine bikes except for the Italian threads in the bottom bracket, but at least they're threaded versus some press fit crap. Little glitzy for me, and I've never been one for the curvy "onda" stays etc, but the F8 looks to be a little different style wise and I kinda like it. If the geometry works for you, then great. I'm a "bigger guy" too, and while superlight might be fine going up, it's the descending where I value something solid under me the most.
I actually have been looking very closely at and riding the Emonda SL this week. The geometry of the 60 is extremely close to my Colnago 61 Traditional. The front end feels quicker, but I think I prefer the stability of the Colnago, but it rode very nice overall. I wouldn't discount the Emonda because of quality or ride characteristics. Still, if you just don't feel like another Trek, I totally get that. But I like the Emonda much better than the Madone, and am very pleased to see they're done with the under the chainstays and behind the bottom bracket brakes. That was a dumb idea from the get go.

Another vote for planted. In my view while weight is a factor, geometry , stability, tracking and handling are more important. One pound on a bike is just a rounding factor and equivalent to a water bottle.

[fromtrektocolnago]

I just rode a trek emonda sl r. Felt kind of woodden to me.

My experience i that this can be attributable to the tires. My Trek 5200 sometimes had that feel. When I finally switched from the stock Rolf Prima's to Mavic's that went away.

[mike]

Although campy eps looks nicer, di2 is much easier to adjust and dial in. Just push the button and you are in adjustment mode. Campy eps sometimes takes several tries to get into proper adjustment mode. The computer just seems a lot slower on eps and is somewhat frustrating. Plus the wires on di2 are a lot smaller.

In the end you will be happier with di2 on your pinarello.

[nlouthan]

Power2max makes a Campagnolo powermeter as well. I have one and it's been perfect.

[stanseven]

If I were buying a new bike today, it would be the F8. I also would go with Di2. While EPS goes with the bike, Di2 is virtually problem free. I've heard too many EPS issues and shops that don't know anything about it.

[ianSWBB]

Very generally speaking, the high-end frames are developed with massive budgets, to do the job the top team who is going to ride them wants to do

they tend not to think of ianSWBB nipping out on a Tuesday for a 17mph 80+miler

so for example - Team Sky, riding Pinarello - want something good at handling steady power of 400W+ for 30+ minutes of climbing - the dogma series has proven great at achieving this

whereas, when it was needed to cope with 1500w of power for 10 seconds (Cav sprinting), then it wasn't so good

On the flip side, the S-Works Venge is not great at long steady power efforts, but is fantastic at massive short sharp bursts!!!

So when deciding on your new steed, have a think of what style you tend to ride - if it is steady level efforts, then the F8 is going to ride like a dream and the plantedness (if that's even a word!) will make it feel like it's on rails when hammering it down the other side of all them hills - the 65.1 is great at descending, but the F8 is even quicker!!!

As for Campag EPS, we've fitted loads of sets and had no issues - the hardest part is fitting the internal power units!! - and if ever anything does arise, Gary A at the UK Campag Service Centre is the most helpful person in the universe!!

As we've got through a zillion sets, we're off to Vicenza in November for a sneak peek on their latest gear

(hopefully we'll get to see the prototype disc brake calipers)


regards

ianSWBB

[fromtrektocolnago]

That was perhaps the best post I've read on WeightWeenies. Very educational and a great contribution. I tend to feel my Colnago C59 excels also at long sustained mid-range and climbing but not super short burts, but it could be my engine.

[joseph42s]

Not to throw a wrench in the plans, but I may get a good deal on a felt. Anyone ride them? If its 1/2 the price of the dogma It may be hard for me to pass it up.

[stanseven]

Great post Ian!

I don't think too many posters here have to worry about what bike is best for their 1,500 watt sprints though. Well maybe just me and a couple others. it sounds like your shop has done "loads of sets" with EPS. Unfortunately most shops here have much less experience with them.

[ianSWBB]

@fromtrektocolnago - thanks - Colnago are a little odd in this sense - they are thinking of the shop window of their pro teams, but also thinking about their loyal brand customers - so they have more made the bike and then gone and picked a team to fit - the other way round to most teams!!!


Europcar are a great match - every Pro team payday is winning a stage in the Tour - Europcar are the type of team most likely to win a stage from a 5-6 man breakaway or a long lone attack - the C59/C60 is built perfectly for this job, which is why you find it so alive on those longer steady state 80-100 milers as opposed to the full gas last 2-3 miles of a club chaingang!

I thought we were supposed to forget about the engine - is it not 'All about the bike' ?




@joseph42s - Felt are great value for money - not quite the prestige or durability of the Colnago/Pinarello of this world, but you will have a great ride - if you're getting the AR FRD, match it up with some ENVE Smart wheels and you'll be PBing everywhere you go!!




@stanseven - thanks - 1500w, I wish too !!! - I think as Campag recoup their R&D costs from making EPS in the first place, then the prices will come down - we have seen 10% knocked off the retail prices of the groups for 2015, but that still leaves it many hundreds of pounds more than 9070 Di2

[joseph42s]

I did it! Put the deposit down and ordered my next ride! I went with the F8, I have been lusting after the Pinnarellos for too long, also went DA DI2 and Pioneer. I will post pics when I get the bike. But I am pumped. Especially since my old madone took a crap today (derailer into the seat stay). That bike is going to get turned into something fun like grocery getter or fixie. I have not decided yet. But I will be putting the Stages Rival up for sale soon.

[Permon]

so for example - Team Sky, riding Pinarello - want something good at handling steady power of 400W+ for 30+ minutes of climbing - the dogma series has proven great at achieving this

whereas, when it was needed to cope with 1500w of power for 10 seconds (Cav sprinting), then it wasn't so good

ianSWBB

This post makes me laught.
What I remember very good was the story when Cav came to SKY....Pinarello came to him asked what to change on the layout of Dogma 65.1 ..... the reply from Cav was: NOTHING. IT IS PERFECT.

I doubt Venge is more stable and stiffer than Dogma.
I rode both and Dogma feels stiffer to me....especially at the front end.
Maybe some CUSTOM 2Kg heavy Venge just for Cav behaves the way You describe, but most probably not the Venge from a shelf at LBS.

(I believe You have some Venges on your shelfs so You are trying to sell it to us )

[ianSWBB]

No, no!
No Venges here
We're more Italian orientated!!!!

Have got my first attempt at a hill climb in a couple of weeks, so am off to practise
Would be amazed if the Powermeter gets into 4 figures!! and it will deffo be getting nowhere near the 1500w needed to proper test the Italian vs American frameset battle

[luckypuncheur]

Ian, I think your interpretation on why a team is riding a particular bike is just wrong. Teams choose bikes based on sponsorship agreements, not on ride characteristics. And Colnago definitely didn't pick Europcar based on the strengths of certain riders in that team.

Furthermore: There's no development goal such as "rides great when climbing with 400+ watts". That's just nonsense in my book.

My impression is that your posts more reflect on how you think that things could/should be than on how they actually are. A Colnago has, just for example, no specific breakaway capabilities. This would possibly imply superior aerodynamics, which I haven't seen on a Colnago yet.

That aside, the F8 is a nice bike with which Pinarello slowly closes the gap compared to the technology leaders (mostly US and German brands). It's still too heavy and far too expensive for my liking, but has a very balanced geometry which suits many riders quite well.

"Planted" feel is, that aside, almost always found on heavy bikes. No surprise...