Power meter vs perceived exertion

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

User avatar
bigfatty
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:53 am

by bigfatty

Now it is a common site, taped over power numbers. Below is Contadors.
It is true you can build power with higher percieved excertion but with out a power meter.
With a Power meter but without higher Perceived Exercion, one will never build power.

Has anyone dropped off from measuring power and gone back to PE. Please share your experiences.

(sorry for the full caps :oops: )

Image

admin: YOU DON'T NEED TO YELL AT US
Last edited by bigfatty on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



erty65
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:45 pm

by erty65

What if you ride with x amount of watts, and increase on your next ride, and so on. Will PE also increase?

HillRPete
Posts: 2284
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

I don't get this perceived exertion at all. Go by hard data. Distance, time, power (if you have it).

User avatar
boysa
Posts: 1430
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:03 pm
Location: Too far from my bike.

by boysa

Training and racing are very different. Which is this picture showing?
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it." William Munny

User avatar
bigfatty
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:53 am

by bigfatty

HillRPete wrote:I don't get this perceived exertion at all. Go by hard data. Distance, time, power (if you have it).

arguably the best Grand Tour Rider of the Modern Era seems to disagree. This is why I ask.

User avatar
bigfatty
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:53 am

by bigfatty

boysa wrote:Training and racing are very different. Which is this picture showing?


I would suppose this is in the Giro (or there is something Cadel has been hiding from us :wink: )
So training and Racing, I guess
Image

HillRPete
Posts: 2284
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

bigfatty: right, let me try again. For short intervals, I think you want to primarily go after hard data. For long ones (say a climb of 10min or more) that you do frequently, you can go by feel (and which gear you're in, obviously), but you want to record the data to look at it later, and close the feedback loop. That's my approach anyway.

User avatar
bigfatty
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:53 am

by bigfatty

HillRPete,
just to be the devils advocate here, so whilst doing a prescibred Wattage on short interval, even if you feel great, you wouldn't up the power?
regards the long climb, let's face it, if you can't get yor desired wattage, then you can' get it, simple as that, so this is why we have percieved effort.

I suppose I know when and why to use power but there must be some zealots out there who go on PE and these I would like to hear opinions.
Last edited by bigfatty on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

highdraw

by highdraw

bigfatty,
Can you explain why you believe that taping over PM numbers relates to higher perceived exertion?
Why are they alternatives to one another? Curious where you got your hypothesis or even assign motive to why Cancellara taped over his PM?
Last edited by highdraw on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

5 8 5
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Location: UK

by 5 8 5

The Pros that tape over their SRMs are normally doing so because they don't want to be distracted by the wattages shown. ie just race. They do want the data though for analysis later. The PC8 will have cusomizable fields so that watts can be hidden.

You should b looking at heart rate as an in between perceived effort and power to give quantifiable information.

To use perceived effort correctly you need a fair amount of experience to know how your body is reacting to efforts. A heart rate monitor is a good addition.

User avatar
bigfatty
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:53 am

by bigfatty

Can you explain why you believe that taping over PM numbers relates to higher perceived exertion?


I just thought if they are not looking at power output then they are going on PE, not that it leads to higher PE.

but it is certainly real that some Pros are ignoring there Power numbers in races.

5 8 5
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Location: UK

by 5 8 5

bigfatty wrote:regards the long climb, let's face it, if you can't get yor desired wattage, then you can' get it, simple as that, so this is why we have percieved effort.

I suppose I know when and why to use power but there must be some zealots out there who go on PE and these I would like to hear opinions.

The crux is how accurately you can judge a perceived effort to a wattage by not going too hard or too easy which comes down to experience.

User avatar
jekyll man
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am
Location: Pack filler

by jekyll man

Number fixation...
find nothing worse unless you're meant to be doing specifics.

if you're bunch racing, you either go with the moves or you're left behind...
Official cafe stop tester

highdraw

by highdraw

bf,
don't believe perceived power is alternative to blocking a PM readout...if so, it isn't expressly so but rather implicit. Rather I believe that overall riding circumstances determine rider exertion level especially if racing including how the rider feels and/or even a glance at heart rate.
It also can be an experiment on perceived power. Ride hard and then review data after the ride to see how it comports with training/racing to a power zone or target.

dgran
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:04 pm

by dgran

bigfatty wrote:I suppose I know when and why to use power but there must be some zealots out there who go on PE and these I would like to hear opinions.


I'm not zealous about it, but I use power metering on the trainer and PE on the road. I target a few time trials (uphill) per year and do pretty well at them. I prefer this setup for several reasons:

1) I don't want to even get into the indoor vs outdoor FTP issues. I have one number and one measuring device indoors.
2) The winter is my ideal time to get structured since volume (due to daylight) has to decrease and as much as I may have rigged out my man-cave of pain, I won't devote the volume of time on the trainer like I do outdoors. It works though, because each spring I'm more fit than the previous fall.
3) I need to have a self imposed data diet. If I have a power reading all year round I will want that number moving up. I get a better mix of riding intensity outdoors with PE and chasing some Strava segments. After a winter of staring at "the number" I benefit from the mental release of just listening to my body.
4) After a certain point, "the number" isn't telling me much. After years of structured training I can close my eyes, vary my pace a bit, guess my power output and be pretty darn close. If you spend ~120 hours a year on the trainer staring at the wattage you eventually connect the dots to what each ladder feels like.

All this aside, if the 4iiis precision is as good as I expect it will be hard to pass up for $400 to add power to my outdoor bike, so I may eat my words here. Probably my big reason for going with PE is related to item #4 above where I just can't justify the expense right now.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply