Campagnolo 10 Speed Shifters - Record or 'New' Centaur?

[PJCM]

Wiggle has both black and silver in limited quantities. They come with cable set included.

http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-veloce ... lever-set/

They have 2 sets of Athena ones in stock too....

http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-athena ... lever-set/

I'm interested in how the new shift lever shape feels in the drops, though mostly wanted to ensure I got the post Feb spec.

[graeme_f_k]

Shifter longevity ... hmmm ... longish post needed

Sorry for not getting back sooner, busy with prep for the cycle show at the NEC this weekend, where we've got some of the 2015 range for you to play with "in the flesh" ...

v2 Ergopower - very few problems - generally the index springs (G or P Springs depending on your persuasion) or the spring mount ring are the failure point, 20,000km plus in virtually every case. Occasional LH lever 2 problems, generally around set-up or compatibility (FD or chainset), occasionally cable issues. Very rarely, the index ratchet wears but you have to be a super heavy user. Lever 3 can seize if the rider sweats a lot and saline accumulates on the sprung pivot - very rare though. Most common reason for strip and service (after the index springs) - incorrect gear inner used and a nipple stuck in the cable bushing ...

Escape - occasionally suffered from a "straight to top" shift from the low gears, caused by a distortion of the base of two of the pivots in the Escape mechanism - generally from excessive pressure on the thumb lever (lever 3) on a repeat basis. Lever 2 on the LH lever gained a reputation for failure but in about 85% of cases we found problems in the cable system, gear set-up or compatibility (FD and chainset) as extremely strong contributory factors, even if we couldn't say "only cause".

Ultrashift - very early versions in Veloce and Centaur had some problems with shift accuracy with some Campag RDs and the 11s in the very early versions had a couple of tolerance / material issues that were quickly fixed - all of these issues had pretty much bled out by the beginning of 2009 courtesy of the "running change" policy. Since then, the only real problem we have seen with UltraShift has been accumulation of road dirt in combination with grease and lubes sprayed (unnecessarily, mostly ...) into the lever - sticky shifting is the usual result and is fixed by a proper strip and clean. A small number of lever 2 return spring failures, several instances of poorly set up lever / RD combos leading to an over-rotation of the internal - sorry guys, but that's just pilot error ...

Powershift - an adaptation of the Escape system - in a limited number of cases (it's only the failures you ever read about on the web ...) suffered from a complicated problem where some combinations of volatile mineral oil based lubes could degrade the plastic used for the cable winding bushing, which if it distorted as result could also damage the "tip" of lever 3, giving rise to the "straight to top" problem. It took some time to figure out the cause as it's not generally a single material applied to the lever, but combinations of materials that can lead to the problem - it is now fixed with a different material with little or no sensitivity to volatile hydrocarbons being used for the cable winding bushing.

2015 Ultrashift internals are very closely modeled on previous versions - the main shifter mods are that the cable pull ratio is different and the movement of lever 3 in the LH lever is limited, so no problems are anticipated and testing in the pro peloton for the last two years of the new technologies haven't shown up any issues.

[Fixie82]

graeme_f_k - solid info Thank you for chiming in with this excellent summary, should be very useful for anyone considering Campagnolo shifters.

[vejnemojnen]

Get some 2010 Centaur ones, or 2010 veloce ones.

Ultrashift, and V3 shape on the hoods.

Also, they're cheap if you can source them.

regards

[highdraw]

graeme_f_k,
Thanks for the excellent review of different Campy mech's. Great info.

A couple of questions please based upon what you wrote:

- You mentioned Ultrashift shifters having degraded shift performance due to ingress of dirt and particular types of lubrication. What type of lubrication do you suggest when reassembling a stripped down Ultrashift shifter?

- Same question for Powershift. What type of lubrication aka maintenance do you suggest?

I will tell you I don't disassemble my Ultrashift shifters for periodic cleaning but rather separate spring loaded disks a bit and use a toothbrush, mineral spirits and compressed air.

But I wonder what kind of lubrication you suggest after replenishing cleaned parts?...mineral oil or perhaps a lithium spray grease?

Thanks

[graeme_f_k]

graeme_f_k,
Thanks for the excellent review of different Campy mech's. Great info.

A couple of questions please based upon what you wrote:

- You mentioned Ultrashift shifters having degraded shift performance due to ingress of dirt and particular types of lubrication. What type of lubrication do you suggest when reassembling a stripped down Ultrashift shifter?

- Same question for Powershift. What type of lubrication aka maintenance do you suggest?

I will tell you I don't disassemble my Ultrashift shifters for periodic cleaning but rather separate spring loaded disks a bit and use a toothbrush, mineral spirits and compressed air.

But I wonder what kind of lubrication you suggest after replenishing cleaned parts?...mineral oil or perhaps a lithium spray grease?

Thanks

The cleaning method in UltraShift is fine, although you may want to use, as a result of using a spirit cleaner, a thin oil "piped" into the bearings between the "front" and the "back" half of the lever - ProLink ProGold can be obtained in a cable oiler and I find that a brilliant lube for this type of job, not least as it is resistant to thickening during work and it also has a magnetic molecule bound into the oil which means it stays where you put it in bearing systems where surfaces and balls are ferrous.

Generally in the Service Centre here we strip and lightly grease UltraShift using LB100 (aka the Kluber grease) as a corrosion deterrent rather than strictly speaking, a lube - little lubrication is *actually* needed - just some inside the clutches to assist the smooth motion of the balls and of course some should ideally be present in the bearing mentioned above. A dab of ProLink ProGold on the pivot of the thumb lever (lever 3) and ditto the fore-aft pivot of lever 2 is a good idea, especially in winter, really hot summers and for turbo work (thinking salt and accelerated galvanic corrosion).

In PowerShift / Escape, there is no real need for any lube at all ... consider - grease is mostly used to barrier corrosion, only the oil component is being used to lubricate between surfaces.

The surfaces that need to move cleanly against each other in a PowerShift lever are either self-lubricating (the main spindle is steel, in a brass bushing) or the contact area between them is very small and very smooth - spring steel against chrome plate. Spring steel is by the nature of it's composition fairly corrosion resistant, chrome plate equally so - hence only a very small amount of, if any, lube is needed.

I'd suggest steering well clear of any thin, volatile lubes or cleaners (no WD40, either!) and just dropping the cover plate off the spring at the back of the lever and swiping the surface of the spring underneath with a small amount of LB100. Reassemble the fixing screw at a torque of 2.5 nm and use a touch of blue loctite on it (247 solid stick is perfect). Be careful, when this screw is out, not to operate the lever or push the internal assembly of the lever "forwards" as this *can* cause a problem in the front half of the lever that increases friction and is a pain on the proverbial to fix.

HTH
G

[highdraw]

Thanks Graeme.
Great technical advice and much appreciated.
Best Regards.

[PJCM]

Sharing initial impressions of using the latest Veloce Powershift Ergolevers featuring the EPS styled thumbshifter. These replaced first generation 2009 Centaur Ultrashift.

Shifting in the drops feels easier, without the need to extend your thumb as much (the lever is accessible about 1cm lower). Being limited to single shifts hasn't proved a problem given the ease of tapping multiple times if required.

The shifter body retains the same lever blade dimensions, so I was able to switch my carbon Centaur lever blades across to maintain continuity of the groupset.

Replacing just the Ultrashift bodies was also an option but cost more than the complete Veloce lever set including cables.

Acknowledging that the shifter internals are inferior quality to the Ultrashift design and longevity may be in question, I would nonetheless recommend the new Veloce for anyone running 10 speed. Whether the ergonomic benefits of the new lever is worth trading off the ability to make multiple shifts will come down to personal preference but I like it.

[bikerjulio]

You mean 2015?

Where did you get them?

[PJCM]

Yes, 2015 model. Wiggle has limited quantities.

http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-veloce ... lever-set/

They also have the new 4 arm Chorus chainset available.

[highdraw]

Thanks PJCM for sharing your impressions of 2015 Veloce. Nice review.

Question please. Do new 2015 Veloce shifters have the redesigned hood covers which Campy touts for their 2015 Chorus/Record shifters?
If so, can you comment on how the new hood covers feel relative to your earlier Centaur 10s shifters?
Thanks
PS: a point of clarity based upon what you wrote about the durability of Powershift versus Ultrashift. I believe Graeme set the record straight that any weakness of the PS mechanism was addressed with a Feb 2014 running engineering change.

[octav]

Do the new Veloce Shifters work with 10Speed Record Titanium Derailleur(2008)? I would like to change my Ultra Shift 2009 Centaur ones that work really bad now

[highdraw]

Octay, the answer is yes. I have in fact used a 2006 Campy Chorus RD with late model 10s Ultrashift and it shifted perfectly.
Surprised you haven't changed your 2009 Centaur shifters earlier. When Campy changed Centaur in 2010, I couldn't wait to get rid of the 2009 shifters which were awful.

[PJCM]

Re hoods highdraw, they come with the current type. According to the Campag website the new hood is fitted to Chorus and above.

Another point to note about ergonomics is that whilst the thumbshifter extends lower it is shaped to allow your fingers to wrap underneath it without interference when riding on the hoods.

Overall whilst originally designed for EPS, the lever design translates across to Powershift really well.

[octav]

Octay, the answer is yes. I have in fact used a 2006 Campy Chorus RD with late model 10s Ultrashift and it shifted perfectly.
Surprised you haven't changed your 2009 Centaur shifters earlier. When Campy changed Centaur in 2010, I couldn't wait to get rid of the 2009 shifters which were awful.

They are on my Winter bike, which is meant to be a budget one. But it's too bad even for a winter bike Thanks for the tips.
I will get this new ones, and let you know also of the hood shape and ergonomics .