Campy Record 11 FrontBrake centering

[random101]

Hi all,

Just tried to download the Campy manual but it's all in, not english...


Anyhow. If I use a 15mm spanner to centre the brake, it tends to walk back and have the right brake touch the wheel.

Also I have noticed on the rear, there is a spring tension I thought this may help with the centring of the rear. On the front there are two, one brings the pads closer together, the other pushes the spring in (I have it backed out the whole way as it was).

Anyhow anyone experienced this dilemma before? The callipers themselves are pretty free to move about

[Permon]

I do not see any problem to center front brake. Just center it and tighten the bolt. If it is tighten enought, it stays centered.

[random101]

No idea what happened, tried with just the 14mm spanner nothing...

Put in a torque wrench attempted to tighten it... felt like nothing happened... anyhow its much tighter now (doesn't pivot as easy...)

So looks like we are golden. Does anyone have any idea what the screw on the port side does? It bring both the sides in closer? not sure if thats a feature or if im messing with the toe in?

[bikerjulio]

Some Campy brake nuts use a Torx key - not an Allen key. You need to be using the right one to tighten the nut, plus make sure you have sufficient thread engagement.

I have only ever centered brakes using a wrench.

If the cables are too short it can affect brake centering, especially the rear.

For the front brake, the left screw is for fine centering adjustment. The right one adjusts brake spring tension.

Brakes are one area where the standard Campy warning about potential injury or death makes sense. So take care.

[Valbrona]

Absolutely, positively ... do not use a flat open ended wrench to centre Record and Super Record brakes. That is not how you should centre these brakes as the nut has a grub screw, rotate this nut and the tip of the grub screw wears against the thread and damages them. You could unscrew the grub screw first, but keep doing that and you will quickly damage the grub screw.

The brake arms have two small screws. One adjusts spring tension and the second one is used for centring. This second one does not 'bring the brake pads closer to the rim' like you think - it is for centring. If you run out of adjustment then loosen off main fixing bolt and re-affix brake.

[5 8 5]

Have to disagree with you Valbrona. I've checked the docs I have and initial centering is done using a wrench which is what i've always used since dual pivots were introduced. The whole brake assembly moves as everything is locked down. As you say fine tune using the 2mm hex bolt on the side.

@random101, Campag have changed their website and some of the docs are in Italian only for the moment.



Here's the relevant page. Refer to Picture 2, item D. Their is a typo as the text says use a 15mm wrench but that size is for the single-pivot rear brakes. Dual-pivot size wrench is 13mm.

[Valbrona]

In my experience, as you turn the nut the braking assembly rotates on the main fixing bolt - the fixing bolt does not rotate inside the extended nut behind the forks. Not a problem if the nut does not have a grub screw locking it in place, like with some DP Campag brakes where this nut is made from steel and not alloy. This did not occur to me until I stripped down my front SR brake and discovered that this style of adjustment had led to the thread on the fixing bolt being damaged by the tip of the grub screw. Repeated centring exercises with a 13mm open-ended wrench, as per Campag Tech Docs, had caused this.

Camapg Tech Docs are full of errors.

[kbbpll]

random101, I have Campy brake manual .pdf from 2010 in English, probably mostly the same as now. PM with email and I will send it if you want.

[mattr]

I usually use an open ended spanner to hold the brake centred whilst i tighten the 5mm hex bolt.

Once the 5mm hex is tightened (properly) it should be a bit of a pain to move the caliper with the spanner.

[Calnago]

^ That's exactly what I do as well.

[5 8 5]

Post installation tweaks can be made with a spanner. The caliper turns pretty easily...

In my experience, as you turn the nut the braking assembly rotates on the main fixing bolt - the fixing bolt does not rotate inside the extended nut behind the forks. Not a problem if the nut does not have a grub screw locking it in place, like with some DP Campag brakes where this nut is made from steel and not alloy. This did not occur to me until I stripped down my front SR brake and discovered that this style of adjustment had led to the thread on the fixing bolt being damaged by the tip of the grub screw. Repeated centring exercises with a 13mm open-ended wrench, as per Campag Tech Docs, had caused this.

By nature of having a grub screw into the threads there will probably be some damage. It sounds as if the grub screw wasn't tight enough / loctited so that the centre bolt didn't stay put.

[Valbrona]

By nature of having a grub screw into the threads there will probably be some damage. It sounds as if the grub screw wasn't tight enough / loctited so that the centre bolt didn't stay put.

So, if you are saying that when you adjust the nut it does not actually rotate on the main fixing bolt, then by implication are you saying that the main fixing bolt rotates in the recessed nut that sits in the back of the forks?

The instructions that come with the Record/Super Record brakes are plain wrong. They only apply to the older style brakes where you could use the nut for centring because it was made of steel and did not have a grub screw. The switch to alloy has required the fitting of a grub screw and Campagnolo have not adjusted their instruction manual accordingly.

A Campagnolo oversight. Just like they say you should use a 15mm wrench for adjusting, when in fact the size is 13mm.

[5 8 5]

Yes, the whole caliper turns. The brake nut doesn't move. Obviously we are talking about a small movement/ adjustment only.

I remember the calipers you are talking about but it must be from some time ago. The calipers I currently have are 1998 Record Ti, 2008 Skeleton Record and 2012 Super Record. All are single pivot rear. The fronts all have the grub screw so I've been using the spanner method for 16 years. I have to admit that once the front is set it's rare that I have to adjust it. I also use the 2mm allen key to fine tune. The single pivot rear is more prone to go out of alignment but it doesn't have the grub screw. As I previously said, the rear needs a 15mm spanner

[kbbpll]

To be fair, I think the instructions are adequate, but not overly detailed, and yes, have mistakes, but seem to be written for a wider product range. Initially you are only supposed to "fit" the brake on the frame using the "socket-head nut", and then "initially" center the brake using the lock nut. If you read enough into it, it seems (to me) to imply that it's not supposed to be so tight already that what others here are calling the "grub screw" gets damaged. Only at the end do you "secure" the brake to the frame with 10Nm on the "socket-head nut".

My 2010 instructions say 15mm on the lock nut, but the illustration shows the dual-pivot brake. So this is wrong. The current instructions do say 13mm. Note that, at least on my 2010 Record brakes, the lock nut on the (front) dual pivot is 13mm with two flat edges and the rest round, like a bearing cone on older wheel hubs. The single pivot (rear) is a regular hexagonal nut and is 15mm. I don't know what current brakes look like, but at least back then the lock nuts were both 13 and 15.

They continue to say that the "socket-head" nut is 5mm Allen, when it is Torx on mine. And the cable retainer was supposedly 5mm Allen OR Torx T25 "only for Record", but my Record are both 5mm Allen. So yes, they got mistakes.

[Valbrona]

The orientation of the nut with the grub screw in the case of Record/Super Record brakes is perhaps indicative of the fact that it should not be used for adjustment . Quite usually the flats are so positioned that you cannot properly get a wrench onto them - even a proper brake wrench or indeed a cone wrench.

Contrast that with the orientation of the steel nuts you get with Veloce/Centaur brakes and which you can use for adjustment because they do not have a grub screw. They come orientated to allow the fitting of a thin wrench.