Calnago wrote:Good info @Graeme_f_k.
I'd like to make a point or two, and ask a couple questions if I may.
Of course
Calnago wrote:So I can see it might help those folks, but so far for me I have not found it be faster at all. I'll keep testing it though as you make refinements.
It's not so much that it is faster, or at least, it is - but not in all circumstances - the circumstance you mention is one (and an important one to some people's way of thinking) but the real benefit is accuracy, repeatability and the ability of some with small and / or weak hands to cleanly shift where they currently struggle.
Calnago wrote:The other thing is, and this is maybe the one area that I really do see some benefits with the electric stuff, is programmability and compatibility backwards and forwards. For instance, I get why 2015 mechanical shifters wont be backwards compatible and why 2014 shifters won't work with the 2015 stuff. No problem there. Things change. But with electric, it is just a button that sends a signal which instructs a derailleur to move a certain distance, etc. So, even though the new front derailleur for EPS will kind of mirror the changes in the new mechanical version, wouldn't it be great if existing EPS shifters do not need to change at all, but rather a simple reprogramming of the "system" would allow them to work with the new derailleurs? And same goes for backwards compatibility moving forward. So long as the same basic mechanical functions are being performed with the only difference being the amount the derailleurs move per button push etc., this should all be able to be programmed as needed. Or maybe that's how it is right now? I don't know, but if it isn't, it should be.
In the case of Shimano, this is how it is now, up to a point - they allow open access through the E-Tube project and the ownership of an interface to the firmware and the user the ability to change some aspects of the programming of the Firmware in all 7 locations in the Di2 system where it is present.
Campagnolo have taken a more cautious approach and so, for instance, the 2015 EPS FDs, which have some changes in the cage design & therefore the FD throw are already in the lookup tables installed in the v2 (internal PU) firmware. The system auto-detects on connection which FD is present and adjusts the action accordingly. Provided the system is switched off during and for 40 sec or so between switches, you can even swap between versions of the FD without issues (though generally we'd not really advise it unless you *need* to - say a damaged FD). Will Campagnolo ever have a free to access FW solution? I hope not, in a way - we have seen problems with users trying to hack Di2 and coming badly unstuck - I spent 2 hrs getting a Di2 system to work again after a user took it into his head to try and hack the code of the firmware - bloody nightmare. We got there in the end but a lot of what you *can* hack in Di2 is really only of interest to the tiniest minority of potential users and I just don't think it's worth it.
Calnago wrote:For me personally, EPS or Di2 is not what I want in a bicycle as it becomes too much like taking your new high tech car to the dealer for a reprogram when anything goes wrong. And if you're going to go electric, there's got to be a lot more benefits to it than there are now, because quite frankly, I'm not seeing any benefits over mechanical at the moment. And those benefits would probably lie in its flexibility in programming for different situations. In fact, as we enter what... 6 or so years since the introduction of Di2 I am noticing early adopters who sang the praises of electric (because it was new) now going back to mechanical for their next purchase. Nothing worse than a component failing miles from nowhere with nothing you can do because it's an electrical fault. Then to get back and find you need a whole new component, and wait, maybe a new processor or whatever, cuz the new stuff is no longer compatible with that old electric stuff, is quite annoying and expensive. That's the situation the latest convert back to mechanical I know of was facing.
In some respects I agree with you - though to some extent Campagnolo have not got this problem so badly as they were fully digital to start with, 11 speed to start with and the small changes that they have made for 2015 were anticipated more than 2 years ago ... hence they don't have all of the same model-range x year compatibility issues at this stage as Shimano.
I wouldn't say component failures are unheard of but they are increasingly rare (for both companies) as the development curve is still quite steep - but yes, I agree, the fact remains that a dead system *might be* a dead system if a catastrophic failure occurs - no argument there.
On the upside, the ability in a race to accurately re-programme the shift to a service rear wheel whilst rolling and to get out of the saddle in confidence or to be able to slam the bike into top gear in the final in confidence (rather than that feeling of having the high gear end stop no longer correctly set, so avoiding top in case you have a chain-jam scenario) is worth it for some users. OK, so we still have a mechanical low-gear end stop on the RD, so you might not be able to get bottom gear - but that would pertain in a mechanical system, too ...
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!