Hacking a Campagnolo 11-29 cassette?

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colster
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:02 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

by colster

Hi Guys,
I am in need of an opinion on an intended modification.
I am currently riding an 11 speed Super Record mechanical gruppo with 52/36 chainset and 11-27 cassette. These ratios are perfectly adequate for riding in the UK, but am about to go on holiday to Asturias, Spain, where I will be riding the Angliru. For this I purchased a 12-29 cassette, but was a little reluctant to lose my highest gear when it suddenly struck me: I could mix the sprockets to create my own cassette below:

The 11-27 cassette is spaced: 11...12...13...14...15...17-19-21...23-25-27
The 12-29 cassette is spaced: 12...13...14...15...16...17-19-21...23-26-29

My ideal 11-29 will be spaced: 11...12...13...14...15...17-19-21...23-26-29

The deciding factor for the viability of this would be the total capacity of the rear derailleur, yet I cannot find the total capacity for a Super Record rear derailleur anywhere.
I have checked Campagnolo's tech docs online and done a google search, and have checked all the papers that came with the groupset and there is nothing with the rear derailleur. Cassette, crankset, brakes sure, but derailleur nothing.

Does anyone know the total capacity for SR derailleur i.e. will an 11-29 cassette be compatible?

p.s. the bike is quite new, barely ridden 500 miles, so mixing worn and new components not really an issue

Thanks guys

by Weenie


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bikerjulio
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Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

A Campy short cage RD will take up 30T easily and 32 if you are really careful with chain length. Your present combo is 32T total, so presumably your chain length is correct.

And this means you can use all the way from big-big to small-small, even though you really shouldn't be.

If you have a 52/36 up front, that's 16T total.

An 11-29 cassette is a 18T difference, so we are up to 34T total which is at, or just above the limit for full useage.

All is not lost. The combo is still perfectly useable in all gears except the extreme small-small gears.

Just size the chain so that the big-big is useable (for safety), and you'll find that at 36-13 or so the chain goes slack. So, not dangerous, just not useable. If your existing chain is fairly new, try it, and if the big-big is still ok you are good.

I know this works because I've done it.

Lastly, I've normally left the "H" screw alone on Campy RD's, but when I installed the 29T cassette was the first time I've needed to adjust it. Backed it right out in my case to increase clearance.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

colster
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:02 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

by colster

Thanks Bikerjoulio

The chain was originally cut for a 52/39 and 12-25, it was only later I swapped ratios, and the derailleur took the new cogs all in its stride, so I feel pretty safe with current set up. Derailleur is not too stretched with big-big combo so an extra push to 29 shouldn't be a problem chain wise.

You say that Campag deraillerurs can take up to 32, but Campy retail a 12-29 that has a difference of 17T, taking total difference (when used with a compact or semi-compact chainset) to 33T, so would 33 not more likely be the total capacity for 11 speed Campag? If so my 11-29 would only slightly be pushing it. If so then like you said it may just limit the extreme big-big and small-small gear combinations that I'm unlikely to use anyway

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bikerjulio
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Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Campy are quoting 32T for a 10-speed RD and 33T for an 11-speed, although there is no difference in cage length, or basic geometry. Perhaps it's the jockey wheels? I haven't checked.

As you say, you should be able to go to 34T as long as the chain is sized correctly.

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_25_Technical%20manual%20-%20Mechanical%20groupsets%20rear%20derailleur%20-%20Campagnolo_REV00_07_13.pdf
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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sugarkane
in the industry
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by sugarkane

I did this with a chorus 11/25 and a record 12/29
You loose the 16. But it's straight either side of the hole.
You'll need a longer chain but I run both an 11/25 and my 11/29 on the same chain. You just can't cross chain small/small.
I wouldn't waste the money on a record or sr 11/25 as your only using the steel teeth any way...

mpower
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 4:37 pm

by mpower

bikerjulio wrote:A Campy short cage RD will take up 30T easily and 32 if you are really careful with chain length. Your present combo is 32T total, so presumably your chain length is correct.
........


How about EPS short cage? Can it take a 32T cassette with ease with a compact 50/34T crank plus a new chain?

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bikerjulio
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Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Campy EPS RD's have similar geometry to the mechanical RD's so I'd expect the official word to be the same - max 29T, max takeup 33T.

I would not expect it to work with a 50/34 up front and a 12-32 cassette.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

sedluk
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:10 am

by sedluk

I regularly ride a Campy 11-29, it works fine on my Cervelo's with 405mm chainstay and 50/34 & 53/39.

It does not work with a 52/36 with my chainstay length. The problem is that I cannot get a proper chain length with the 52/36. Sure, I can get a chain length that will work and the chain with gently rub when 11-36. Some would say that is not a big problem because you won't spend much time in that combo and there is really no harm done. The chain is not going to wear out if it rubs against the metal tab on the bottom of the RD, and that will only happen when in 11-36.

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

Definitive information is here:

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/0 ... _07_13.pdf

For future readers of this thread, bear in mind that hanger length and the relative angular displacement of the top pivot bolt and the wheel spindle, along with the position of the rear derailleur rotation stop also have a direct effect on RD capacity.

The quoted capacities assume that the RD hanger is withing the spec laid out by Campagnolo in their technical data.

As others have stated, by allowing some ratios to become effectively un-useable it is possible to "force" a greater range on the system but there amy (will?) be some impact on shifting accuracy / speed.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

ricardochicas
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:20 pm

by ricardochicas

Can I use this new Potenza 11-32 cassette 11 sp with my Super Record 11 derailleur and chain? I already have a 11-29 but I need something better for the hills of my country. Will really appreciate your advice.

pinkSanta
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:36 pm

by pinkSanta

The 32 will not work! I had the same idea.
I bought the Potenza for my girlfriend last summer and remember reading that the potenza derailleur has a different movement along the axis,
which gives it enough clearence to the 32.
You cannot buy a potenza derailleur and use your SR shifter either as they aren't compatible.
Buy a 52-36 or a compact but remember to shorten the chain the right length otherwise your shifting will be very sluggish or not at all on the smallest cogs.

ferrarista
Posts: 1202
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:39 am
Location: Canada

by ferrarista

pinkSanta wrote:The 32 will not work! I had the same idea.
I bought the Potenza for my girlfriend last summer and remember reading that the potenza derailleur has a different movement along the axis,
which gives it enough clearence to the 32.
You cannot buy a potenza derailleur and use your SR shifter either as they aren't compatible.
Buy a 52-36 or a compact but remember to shorten the chain the right length otherwise your shifting will be very sluggish or not at all on the smallest cogs.


That is not exact. You can't use Potenza derailleur with 2014 and less 11 speed shifters as the cable pull is different. However, you can use Potenza with the new 2015+ Cho-RE-SR if you want.
You can also swap the Potenza medium cage to SR-RE-CH derailleurs and use the 11-32 without any problems. Sugarkane did a Potenza medium cage swap to a super record EPS derailleur and it worked with 11-32.
██

pinkSanta
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:36 pm

by pinkSanta

ferrarista wrote:
pinkSanta wrote:The 32 will not work! I had the same idea.
I bought the Potenza for my girlfriend last summer and remember reading that the potenza derailleur has a different movement along the axis,
which gives it enough clearence to the 32.
You cannot buy a potenza derailleur and use your SR shifter either as they aren't compatible.
Buy a 52-36 or a compact but remember to shorten the chain the right length otherwise your shifting will be very sluggish or not at all on the smallest cogs.


That is not exact. You can't use Potenza derailleur with 2014 and less 11 speed shifters as the cable pull is different. However, you can use Potenza with the new 2015+ Cho-RE-SR if you want.
You can also swap the Potenza medium cage to SR-RE-CH derailleurs and use the 11-32 without any problems. Sugarkane did a Potenza medium cage swap to a super record EPS derailleur and it worked with 11-32.



Well actually it IS EXACT! :wink:
I do remember when mounting it on my girlfriends bike and reading the manual cover to cover.
According to the documentation it specifically says:


https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _04_16.pdf

WARNING!
These Ergopower Potenza 11™ components are NOT designed to function with and are therefore not compatible with
rear and front derailleurs from other drivetrains.


There is a marking of a letter B on the inside of the shifter under the rubber hoods.

and
https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _04_16.pdf

WARNING! (ONLY FOR POTENZA 11™ REAR DERAILLEURS)
The Potenza 11™
rear derailleur is NOT designed to function with (and is therefore not compatible with) Ergopower Ultra-
Shift / Power-Shift commands from other drivetrains and Bar-End commands not marked by the letter B.



As for what Sugarcane did, I don't get it. Did he swap a mechanical to an electrical rear derailleur???? Or the other way around? Plz explain further. :lol:

c50jim
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:42 am
Location: Calgary

by c50jim

For the OP. Do you really need a 52-11 on that trip? Yes, you'll be able to get up quite a bit of speed at times but it will probably be on steep downhills where pedaling won't add much to your speed. Yes, you can swap out the three lowest cogs since they're a set. If you look at Campy's 11-27 and 11-29 cassettes, you'll see that they are the same except for the lowest two gears. 12-27 and 12-29 the same except with 11 tooth instead of 16. If you have the cassette with the 29, try it on your bike. Switching cassettes is easy. Do you really want to use an old chain on that new cassette? Lastly, the easiest swap and one that would give you lower gearing and still pretty high top would be chainrings to 50/34.

Re using 11-32 with various Campy kits. I used a Shimano 11-32 on my travel bike for a couple of years. It was a 2014 Chorus group and we had to swap out the rear derailleur for an Athena mid cage but it worked perfectly. If Potenza rear derailleur shifts with the 2015 and later shifters, it should work with anything from Chorus to Super Record.

Being an old guy who doesn't need super speed (or at least anything faster than gravity provides), I'm switching to a 46/30 crank this year. I'll run it with the old reliable 12-29 since I like the tight spacing when I'm not going up or down the big hills.
Last edited by c50jim on Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

benzebub
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 1:24 pm

by benzebub

I used a shimano 11-32 cassette with my 2015 chorus drivetrain last summer for a trip to the mountains. crankset was a 50-34. It worked without a problem, just don't be a fool and do small-small or big-big.
But I could be wrong

by Weenie


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