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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:18 am 
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The question is almost self-answered. It's pretty much every manufacturer that has a pro team bike during the last decade. My favorites:
Colnago
Look
Time
Pinarello
Wilier
Bianchi
BMC

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:33 am 
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AX Lightness makes everything in house for their Vial Evo frame. Pretty amazing, but on scale, you can't beat Giant and Merida.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:39 am 
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Location: France
to me the leaders are Cannondale ,Cervelo, Trek, most north american brands in fact.

They are making inovations and improvements over the years, most european brands are more focused on marketing and making sales .


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:53 am 
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I would not include Cervelo. They push the envelope too much. You can see the results from that philosophy over the years with stories of cracks around the bottom bracket, fork recalls and more cracks on the seat stays. Cervelo is very good at honoring the warranty, but who buys a bike wanting or hoping to get a replacement that way. I know this is weight weenies, but a bike can be made too light. Cannondale used to be a great bike company, but since they shut down North American production they are simply a marketing outfit. Other than laying temporary claim to the lightest production carbon bike I'm not sure what they offer. Trek still maintains a manufacturing capacity for their high end bikes, and if you buy a Madone 6 or 7 you are getting some cutting edge design, but go a step down to a Madone 5 you are getting an OCLV frame which I find funny since my Trek 5200 carries that same claim. I think Time does some interesting stuff, they make their bikes from start to finish, personally I'm not a fan of the integrated headsets and seat posts.

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Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Location: Canada
That post belongs in RBR, not WW.......wait its already there......what a coincidence!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Antoine wrote:
most european brands are more focused on marketing and making sales.


Sorry, but that's totally wrong. If you compare the marketing budget and the actual sales of most european brands you will realise the opposite is true. Unfortunately many european brands make top performing bikes but they just manage to survive because their marketing/sponsoring budget and total sales are limited. There are still dozens of great european manufacturers from Italy, France etc. with no marketing at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Location: France
I was thinking at brands like Pinarello, Colnago, Willier, Bianchi, Look and Time and by marketing I meant stimulate or arouse cyclist's needs by questionable concepts or arguments like 100 years experience (but not in carbon).

Of course they make great bikes but if you look at the new dogma he has more in common with the Lapierre Aircode than with the former dogma. So why were the onda shapes for ?
Look gets often innovation prizes for their bikes but I don't think the Look 675 for example brings really something.
Colnago makes every new C model x% stiffer than the previous, who needs that except the pros or the 100 kgs guys ?

Cervelo brought the thin stays who are on many bikes today, and put aero frames on the front line. Seems like the new S3 is a mix between aero and confort and it can be used by the pros and the average descent rider.

Cannondale made alu frames only for years and brands like Bianchi just followed that . Today they make arguably the best frame for most riders with the Super Six Evo.

Unfortunately Cervelo and Cannondale don't have the best quality control.

It's very easy to design a frame with CAD's help but imho for the last 10 years north american brands are the leaders.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
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Location: Natovi Landing
Antoine wrote:
Look gets often innovation prizes for their bikes but I don't think the Look 675 for example brings really something.



:lol: i.e. one of their bikes isn't innovative ... ergo ...

The one North American (Canadian) firm you name that deserves to be in this group is Cervelo - low weight and thin stays of original R3 were ahead of their time, as were the S series bikes ... last few years it's been much less revolutionary however ...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:43 pm 
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Cervelo is the leader . . . . . . . . in marketing lies.
Never saw a bike company producing such a pile of shit of marketing related nonsense.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:00 pm 
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Location: Canada
Right.......not like pinarello.....

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:28 pm 
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goodboyr wrote:
Right.......not like pinarello.....


What are you trying to do? By naming others it suddenly is not such an issue?
Oh you have a Cervelo, what a coincidence. lol :twisted:
I never said other manufacturers are not guilty on marketing BS.
But Cervelo is the worst of all. By far.

Maybe we should start a new topic.
A topic where we make a list of the marketing BS related to specific manufacturers.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm
Posts: 518
Maybe off topic, but I am fascinated by the way bike companies market themselves. Some sell bikes as if they were cars(I'm thinking horsepower and such or watts per say), others focus on exaggerated pronunciations an obvious attempt at snobbery, while others will show pictures of their frames much as Swiss watchers their time pieces. The ad companies are well paid here. Where Cerevelo beats all the other bike companies is how they take advantage of social media in their marketing effort, in that regard they do a far better job than Cannondale, Trek or Pinarello

But I do to struggle with how a Cervelo is better than Felt, though owned by the same company and both built in factories far away from where the designers and marketers sit and in an environment far removed from the hyperbole thrown at us in the marketing pitches.

_________________
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:40 am 
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Posts: 1298
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Why do you struggle? One has a 650 gram frame, the other doesn't. As far as the other things, they are quite close.

But the AR was never tested with a dummy, the S series all were. Cervelo is getting to the level where it's unbelievably hard to find improvements. All their current frames are so good, only weight can be shaved here and there.

As for BRM, I'd sure love to see your list of Cervelo marketing inaccuracies. Please, do tell.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:53 am 
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Location: Austin, TX
I would very much like to hear those specific examples as well BRM.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:03 am 
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Location: Kingston, the heart of UK weenie-ism
Colnago. While others above doubt their technical abilities, what counts for me is the decades of pro feedback that make riding a top end Colnago like drinking a ten year old Nuits Saint-George. Their frames are not as light as some, as forgiving as others, as stiff as those ones. But as the best possible combination I just keep coming back to them.

Oh, and maybe Look.

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