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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 98
What is up with the head tube geometry? The bars are equal with the saddle in all those pics!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:23 am 
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Velove - the reason people on a cycling dedicated forum and not a manufacturing overhead reduction forum dislike this is
1) One of Parlee's points of difference has been having many more sizing options than other brands.
2) They used to have classic good looks
3) They used to wave the made in 'merica flag, that has already gone long ago with the Z5 being the mass production model

Re: Ingenious design solution allowing a reduction in spacer by altering the top cap height - a top cap IS a spacer. It does not support the steerer and thus is no better than any other generic round spacer for purposes of effective headtube stiffness. Riding a stem slammed onto a 50mm headset cap means you are running 50mm of spacers under your stem, not 0mm.

Re: Have we ridden the ugly bikes, I haven't, but as I have to look at any bike in order to mount it I would never consider it an option. Looks may be superficial but they are important. A fat chick may be a more enthusiastic sexual partner than the hot skinny chick, but I would never know.

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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:23 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 24
I also just bought a z5sli but had heard talk of a new bike,
I'm not sorry for going for the z5sli it's amazing and I much prefer it to the altum


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:33 am 
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Posts: 266
dayne wrote:
I also just bought a z5sli but had heard talk of a new bike,
I'm not sorry for going for the z5sli it's amazing and I much prefer it to the altum


yeah now that I have seen it (altum)... I'm not too bummed about my Z5i purchase... Z5sli would have been nice, but since I got it painted and a Enve 1.0 fork already...the Z5i made $ense


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm
Posts: 266
delete..double post


Last edited by spdntrxi on Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:44 am 
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Location: Los Angeles | Boulder
congrats on all those z5 purchases... I have loved my Z5sl for a while. I have also loved much more about the Parlee brand...

...

... until now.

This is all sorts of ugly here. And honestly, there are much more "innovative" companies so I'm not buying it on that premise either. I always felt their story was one of a rethought classicism. Just build a damn fine superlight ride. Now it's all tech and there are much bigger fish that, frankly, have the money to do it better.

This makes me start to have a bit of R5 envy.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am
Posts: 289
The Z5 (not the "tall" version) looked way better than this imo. I really dislike this weird looking head tube knob, just like the Venge and the Look, ewwwwwwww. Just make a race version and an upright Alan version, not this obvious compromise, one size fits all type thing. There must be someone at the top pushing this flex geo agenda, too bad! I will say I really like the blue paint on the R version.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:40 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Australia
NiFTY wrote:
Velove - the reason people on a cycling dedicated forum and not a manufacturing overhead reduction forum dislike this is
1) One of Parlee's points of difference has been having many more sizing options than other brands.
2) They used to have classic good looks
3) They used to wave the made in 'merica flag, that has already gone long ago with the Z5 being the mass production model

Re: Ingenious design solution allowing a reduction in spacer by altering the top cap height - a top cap IS a spacer. It does not support the steerer and thus is no better than any other generic round spacer for purposes of effective headtube stiffness. Riding a stem slammed onto a 50mm headset cap means you are running 50mm of spacers under your stem, not 0mm.

Re: Have we ridden the ugly bikes, I haven't, but as I have to look at any bike in order to mount it I would never consider it an option. Looks may be superficial but they are important. A fat chick may be a more enthusiastic sexual partner than the hot skinny chick, but I would never know.


To answer your points:

So, a forum dedicated to cycling is supposed to completely ignore the manufacturing process and the needs of the manufacturer in producing and delivering the bikes that said dedicated cyclists ride? Good to know.

1: Yes. What's your point? Parlee still do have many more sizing options than other brands. The implementation of this topcap solution doesn't change that, it augments it.
2: If you are wanting a 'classic' looking bike, try their Z range. They 'used to' have 'classic' looking bikes, and you'll find the still do. An interesting point to note here: Parlee were lambasted in the forums (and occasionally still are) for producing bikes that are 'too traditional'. I think you'll find that function is more important to Parlee than pure aesthetics.
3: Yes. Parlee proudly manufacture in America. Their entire current Z range IS manufactured in America (note for the pedants - the Z5 range is no longer current, so don't scream that it's not manufactured in America okay?). Don't claim that their heritage has 'gone long ago' simply because they decided to leverage Asian manufacturing for select models in their range. If you wish to, you are more than able to purchase a hand-made Parlee, one that's made in America from American made carbon fibre tubing.

So, to clarify: you're incorrect on all three of your main points. Ah, the wonder of the Internet - even the ill-informed get a voice.

Re: topcap/spacer - I'll clarify with the source before I comment, but I'm pretty sure you're again in error.

You don't like the looks of the Altum? Great, move on. Clearly it's not for you. Conversations purely around the aesthetics of bikes are pretty pointless - for every naysayer there'll be someone else who loves the look. Conversations around the function and how that function dictates the form and to what degree are far more interesting and worthwile, they can be inclusive of facts and don't simply rely on opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am
Posts: 289
You're totally wrong Volove bro, sorry. The beauty of these anonymous forums are the honest (and sometimes brutal) critical analysis. Do you think it's not valuable to manufacturers or that they don't care? I would be willing to bet that they do care what consumers like us (who ride, race and spend thousands year over year) think, and that they take notice of such discussions.

We don't want to water down this discussion. We want to keep it as is and help drive real progress with honest feedback. Noone wants to see Parlee fail, or to hurt feelings, but this is business and passion, and we simply want them to make more awesome stuff! In order to get there they need to cut to the chase by considering these honest opinions. I would bet 10K that 90% of the users here just want to see mind-blowing and sexy new frames from Parlee, Colnago, Time, Look, Canyon, etc.. But where is it? C60 looks good and that's it. Give us more good stuff and we'll eat it up! Here we are telling what we want and don't want.

What is the alternative? An internet with nothing but astroturfed blogs and paid reviews? If you don't like it move on? Screw that, what is the point?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Posts: 1
Man, that is one ugly bike. You would never see an Italian bike that ugly. For whatever manufacturing efficiencies that were the reason for the hump, it makes for a spectacularly ugly bike. And anyone who spends $5k+ on a frame wants something beautiful, something that makes their heart beat a little faster before you throw a leg over it.

I bought a Z5sli a few months ago and love it. I am very happy I got one of those and not one of these eyesores. I would have gone to an Cervelo R5, Colnago C60, or Specialized SL4 -- all good looking, high performance bikes, and wouldn't have considered this thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
Posts: 198
Velove wrote:
NiFTY wrote:
Velove - the reason people on a cycling dedicated forum and not a manufacturing overhead reduction forum dislike this is
1) One of Parlee's points of difference has been having many more sizing options than other brands.
2) They used to have classic good looks
3) They used to wave the made in 'merica flag, that has already gone long ago with the Z5 being the mass production model

Re: Ingenious design solution allowing a reduction in spacer by altering the top cap height - a top cap IS a spacer. It does not support the steerer and thus is no better than any other generic round spacer for purposes of effective headtube stiffness. Riding a stem slammed onto a 50mm headset cap means you are running 50mm of spacers under your stem, not 0mm.

Re: Have we ridden the ugly bikes, I haven't, but as I have to look at any bike in order to mount it I would never consider it an option. Looks may be superficial but they are important. A fat chick may be a more enthusiastic sexual partner than the hot skinny chick, but I would never know.


To answer your points:

So, a forum dedicated to cycling is supposed to completely ignore the manufacturing process and the needs of the manufacturer in producing and delivering the bikes that said dedicated cyclists ride? Good to know.

1: Yes. What's your point? Parlee still do have many more sizing options than other brands. The implementation of this topcap solution doesn't change that, it augments it.
2: If you are wanting a 'classic' looking bike, try their Z range. They 'used to' have 'classic' looking bikes, and you'll find the still do. An interesting point to note here: Parlee were lambasted in the forums (and occasionally still are) for producing bikes that are 'too traditional'. I think you'll find that function is more important to Parlee than pure aesthetics.
3: Yes. Parlee proudly manufacture in America. Their entire current Z range IS manufactured in America (note for the pedants - the Z5 range is no longer current, so don't scream that it's not manufactured in America okay?). Don't claim that their heritage has 'gone long ago' simply because they decided to leverage Asian manufacturing for select models in their range. If you wish to, you are more than able to purchase a hand-made Parlee, one that's made in America from American made carbon fibre tubing.

So, to clarify: you're incorrect on all three of your main points. Ah, the wonder of the Internet - even the ill-informed get a voice.

Re: topcap/spacer - I'll clarify with the source before I comment, but I'm pretty sure you're again in error.

You don't like the looks of the Altum? Great, move on. Clearly it's not for you. Conversations purely around the aesthetics of bikes are pretty pointless - for every naysayer there'll be someone else who loves the look. Conversations around the function and how that function dictates the form and to what degree are far more interesting and worthwile, they can be inclusive of facts and don't simply rely on opinion.



Haha, "great, move on"? Maybe take your own advice? Is this Bob Parlee?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:01 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm
Posts: 431
Velove, what I meant about we, the consumer don't care about manufacturing is, we don't look at it as a positive if you streamline your production costs, whilst delivering us less choice at the same price. It will be great for the manufacturer or the shareholder, but not the customer. (Might not be good for the manufacturer or shareholder if no-one buys the new design though)

If i wanted a parlee with classic geometry i would go for a Z0/2/3 except the entry price is $6200 for frame only, compared to $3900 for frame only Z5i, and you could buy them fully built. And i did say Parlee produced their "mainstream" bikes in asia as in Z5 series, i never said all bikes. What would the Z0/2/3 be as a proportion of the total sales <5%?

And you can clarify with whatever source you like about the spacer - if it is only attached to the frame by the steer tube feeding through its centre then it is taking only compressive force, it helps 0% resisting lateral/anterior/posterior forces. And it looks exactly the same as the ESX headset cap- which is just a spacer. Like was released on the venge in 2011. Such technology.

Also when justifying your position it might be useful to clarify any conflicts of interest. I personally do not run a bike shop/dealership. I have no conflict of interest in overhyping a new model to increase my sales. Do you?

http://velove-cycles.com/contact-velove-cycles/

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:28 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm
Posts: 431
One last point of yours i missed Velove:

You say: Parlee still have more sizing options than their competitors. Really? Here are the ESX sizing options, the first of their "new generation flexfit" frames. They have sizes S,M,ML,L,XL = 5
5 Different sizes in total.
http://www.parleecycles.com/esx-geometry/

Lets compare with a comparable frame, how about Specialized's comparable aero frame, the venge.
49,52,54,56,58,61 = 6 (6 is more than 5)
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ ... 2#geometry

Maybe that one was just a fluke. Lets have a look at some others, chin up.

Scott foil = 7 (47,49,52,54,56,58,61) http://dfp2hfrf3mn0u.cloudfront.net/188 ... inal_1.jpg

BMC TMR01 = 6 (more than 5) (48 51 54 56 58 61) http://www.bmc-racing.com/int-en/bikes/ ... a_ace_di2/

Cervelo S3 = 6 (more than 5) (48 51 54 56 58 61) http://www.cervelo.com/media/docs/S2-an ... a355-0.pdf

Colnago VR-1 = 8(more than 5) http://colnago.com/geometry-v1-r-2/?lang=en

Giant Propel = 6(more than 5) (XS,S,M,ML,L,XL) http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bik ... /#geometry

In fact its actually hard, I gave up without success, to find anyone that offers less frame sizes than parlee for aero road bikes. What was it you said again about the internet and ill-informed voices?

PS. This has been a great advertisement for the "expertise" someone could find at your bike shop.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:40 am
Posts: 391
Egads! I might not have as much problem with the hump on the top tube if the down tube also wasn't growing a tumor, what's the point of that?


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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:50 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Location: Atlanta, GA, US
NiFTY wrote:
One last point of yours i missed Velove:

You say: Parlee still have more sizing options than their competitors. Really?


Parlee's version of offering more size options seems to be the "tall" models that they offer with the increased headtube lengths, which in effect reduces reach and increases stack. I think they count that as having 10 sizes in total (5 regular + 5 tall). That said, it looks like they are just offering a taller top-cap with the ESX frame, so I am not sure if that counts.

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