Campagnolo EPS "Dump" Question

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
sethjs
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Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Just tested EPS out on a couple extended rides. Generally liked it, but...

I often "dump" the front and rear at the same time. ie - on a flat, get to the base of a climb, go from big to small ring up front while simultaneously shifting 3 cogs higher in the rear. I do this to keep roughly the same gear ratio but to be able to start backing off the gearing as the climb increases. I do the opposite as I crest a climb.

On the EPS, if I hit both levers at the same time it seems I can get the front mech to shift and the rear mech to move *two* cogs - but I seem to need to let the system "free up" to get that third cog in the back. Usually means waiting a second or two and then shifting again in the rear.

Anyone noticed this / found a work around? Might just be a peculiarity of my shifting pattern...

by Weenie


Butcher
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by Butcher

One of the worst features of the EPS vs the mechanical version. You have to time your shift sequence because I noticed that it will not shift both derailleurs at the same time. It depends on which shifter you press first on which derailleur shifts first. You just need to hold the rear shifter down longer to get that gear your looking for.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I still contend that I can shift faster and more accurately with a finely tuned mechanical system than I can with an electric system. I can "throw things around" faster, whether it's in increments of 1 cog, 2 cogs, 3 cogs, etc. Or simultaneously shifting front and rear. And I know exactly where it's going to land. I feel more in control and "one" with a mechanical system. No "hold and wait". No after shift "psssst" sound. Just bang!... And I'm there. Sorry, no help to the OP but I'm curious to see what the solution is for his concerns, as it is a valid one.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Butcher
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by Butcher

I agree, but as a former owner of the SR11 mechanical version, the amount of effort is so much less. There is no question it will be the right shift. There will be no lag if the cable is dragging because your in the rain. There is so much less maintenance and fine adjustments that the EPS has, it is worth loosing that slight speed in shifting.

It's just as fast as when you first start the ride and at the end of a long hammer fest. I could not say that with the mechanical version. I was just so beat I could barely shift at all.

jimborello
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 5:07 am

by jimborello

I agree with Butcher, the slight trade off you say there is (I havent noticed it I will try it later today) is worth for all the advantages you get for switching to EPS. I currently run both mechanical and EPS and I cant say anything bad about the electronic.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I'm just not seeing "all the advantages". The only advantage to EPS that I have entertained is the kind of "set it and forget it" setup with electric, but that's it. Once set up, it will shift the same all the time... and I presume you don't really need to adjust anything very often if at all. For those who do not work on their bikes themselves and/or are not very adept at really dialing in a mechanical shift system, this is a very good thing, both for the owner and the dealer. And that is no small thing, I readily admit. But I like working on bikes, and don't mind taking the extra time to really dial something in perfectly. And once dialed, with a rider who understands how to shift properly, I feel a mechanical system is both faster and able to be thrown around more readily. You're basically part of the system, instead of a button pusher. That's still my feeling anyway, but I'll keep trying the new interations to see if they come up with something that is real advantage over mechanical. And I still hate the aesthetics of the harness, etc., not to mention trying to diagnose a problem if something goes wrong. But I'm shifting my front and rear derailleurs simultaneously all the time, exactly as the OP is trying to do. I hate the "hold and wait" approach of the electric system. I'm open to change but so far I not only don't see any need, and still prefer mechanical. I'm glad both companies are still offering a choice and continuing to refine them both.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

adrianishikawa
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:53 am

by adrianishikawa

OT a little, but does anyone know what will happen if you shift the derailleurs without actually pedalling? Would it force shift or would it sense that it won't shift?

tinozee
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

Great question as this type of big gear change is something I do quite often in the hills.

Kind of OT but this won't be possible with the Sram electronic either if it relies on "both at once" just to shift the front rings. I wonder if it works well with Di2.

LionelB
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Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

Calnago wrote:But I'm shifting my front and rear derailleurs simultaneously all the time, exactly as the OP is trying to do. I hate the "hold and wait" approach of the electric system. I'm open to change but so far I not only don't see any need, and still prefer mechanical. I'm glad both companies are still offering a choice and continuing to refine them both.


Been using EPS for a month now, shifting front and rear at the same time works perfectly on mine.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Hi @Lionel. Are you saying you can perform the simultaneous front and rear shift that the OP is asking about? That being, for example... From big to small up front along with a simultaneous "slam" of 3 or more rear cogs at once? If so, do you think you can do this as fast, faster or slower than with a mechanical system? Or about the same?
Also, now that you've been using it for a month, can you list all the "advantages" you see in EPS on a standard road bike, or would you say it's more like just a different way of accomplishing the same thing? Let's ignore TT bikes where I do think being able to shift from several positions is great as well as being able to better deal with the convoluted cable routing that often occurs with TT bikes.
It seems that if the advantages were so great and numerous over mechanical then there would be NO pros still choosing mechanical over electric, which is not the case today. Stars like Cancellara on the Shimano side, and Thomas Voekler and this years TDF winner Nibali on the Campy side come to mind to name a few. Still preferring mechanical and still doing ok.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

LionelB
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Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

I am riding EPS because it came with my Dogma and I could not get the frame only in my size. So I was sort of "forced" into it. This said I actually like it quite a bit.

Yes I can perform the simultaneous front and rear with no problem and often do.

+
Very smooth and comfortable operation overall
No adjustment needed
Small to big ring shifting is clearly better than meca
Shifting from the drops with the thumb shifter is easier
For frame with complex internal routing no cable rub problems or sharp bend problems
Auto trimming
Shifter body is slighly bigger than mechanical and I prefer it

-
For changing multiple gears up or down it is not as precise as the mechanical group, hard to control if you will shift 2/3/4 gears
If you have a problem the diagnosis is probably be a mess


Overall it is not worth the $ premium IMO and the + are subtle compared to mechanical. The 2 biggest are the small to large ring shift and the thumb shifting from the drops.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Thanks Lionel, good summary.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Butcher
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by Butcher

Holding the shifter to change 3 gears is much more difficult than the mechanical version, but the longer I'm riding it, the better I am with the timing of that.

Still, the mechanical version is much better for that purpose.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yes @Butcher, that's what I have concluded as well but I'm not riding EPS every day so I was wondering if after you use it enough if it's just as easy as mechanical. I am so in tune with my mechanical shifting that whether I want to shift 1,2,3 or more cogs at once or front and rear at the same time I can just bang it once and just know exactly where it will land, with no holding. Holding a sensitive button down over any kind of rough roads at all and landing exactly where you intended during a multiple gear change is a hit and miss proposition it seems to me.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


LionelB
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

thing is with electrical going up or down 2 or 3 cogs is also very fast by pressing the lever 2 or 3 times. This is faster than meca. Also dumping 2 or 3 or 4 cogs with the thumbs on the drops is not that precise either as you need a significant pressure on the thumb shifter than often results in dumping more cogs than you want.

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