Di2 mix-and-match--firmware v3.0.5 warning

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
climber8
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:10 am

by climber8

This is a quick warning to users of 9070, 6870 and 6770 Di2 groups. The latest version of the E-Tube software, 2.7.0, will offer to upgrade firmware to the battery (to v3.0.5), among other components. Actually...I think that any version of E-Tube software might attempt to upgrade to this new firmware as of July 14th, 2014....but 2.7.0 seems to do it automatically.

If you perform this upgrade, you may lose the ability to run certain combinations of components. I discovered this the hard way.

On my TT bike, I run basically a 9070 group (9070 FD & RD, R671 TT shifters, modified climbing remote, and internal battery). Due to some routing considerations, I've been running the EW-67 junction box instead of the EW-90 variants just because the form-factor worked best for my routing. All has worked well. When I need to charge the system, I'd plug in a spare EW-90 and do the charging.

I agreed to the upgraded firmware and.... nothing. A fully-charged system no longer shifts at all with the EW-67 as the junction. Shimano USA confirmed that this is the case (I was the first one to report but they tested it).

Some of you out there might be running a 6870 or 9070 set of Di2 parts along with a 6770 (10s) RD, as a way to delay an upgrade to 11s wheels. If you upgrade the battery's firmware, this combination will no longer work. There's no warning that conveys this is what is going to happen, and Shimano does not document the changes in their releases in a meaningful way.

There is also no going back; unless you buy a new battery with the older firmware, you cannot roll back. I tried (installing an old version of the E-Tube software thinking I could possibly force an "upgrade" to an older version--but it is still smart enough to check that the battery has more recent FW, and the older E-Tube software will not run).

There is no fix offered from Shimano.

Of course it is ultimately up to the end user to make a decision to upgrade the firmware, but most will see the blinking button and give it the attention it demands. 9070/6870 + 6770 RD was never an officially supported configuration...so if you run this and want to preserve it, it is best to never upgrade the firmware. Same deal with the EW-67.

Hope this helps someone.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

This has been covered in other threads.

But amended the title and will leave this as a stand alone so others can be warned.

by Weenie


BdaGhisallo
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

to be sure, are there any issues mixing 9070 and 6870 gen 11sp components after the firmware upgrade?

djwalker
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:35 pm

by djwalker

Any idea about the shift levers? I currently have 6770 levers and everything else 6870. It works fine. Will the new firmware cause troubles?

climber8
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:10 am

by climber8

Tinea Pedis wrote:This has been covered in other threads.

But amended the title and will leave this as a stand alone so others can be warned.


I'm pretty tuned into this forum and Di2-related topics elsewhere; I'd never heard of this issue until I stumbled upon it. Has it been discussed here?

I think it deserves to have some prominence as many users will not encounter the issue until it is time to do a battery charge, which as we know doesn't happen all that frequently. They will then be tempted to click the big blinking "Update Firmware" button.

climber8
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:10 am

by climber8

djwalker wrote:Any idea about the shift levers? I currently have 6770 levers and everything else 6870. It works fine. Will the new firmware cause troubles?


At this point, I would not update your battery's firmware. I have not personally tested the above configuration but from what I know this is one that will fail.

6870 shifters + 6770 RD will not work (confirmed); you are essentially asking about the reverse. I suspect any mix-and-match is over.

Jeez....if the EW-67 as the only non-9070 part does not work...

yumseyo
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 12:25 am
Location: San Francisco

by yumseyo

Hi Everyone, I just finished installing an older (I think, I don't know how to tell, I just got a comment on one of the forums that it was 1st generation) 7970 di2 system on a folder and it works great. I was lucky enough to get an extra 7970 rear deraileur that needed a part and fixed it !. Would it be too expensive to put together a Di2 system around the rear deraileur with 6770 and 7970 parts or do they have to be 7970 specific? I won't need the front shift levers as I am using flat bars and cateye shift buttons. Would I just need a front / rear harness and battery? Since I already have the charger base I won't need it.

Omiar
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

7970 is a totally different system.
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Tamu8104
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by Tamu8104

No, 7970 is not eTube, 6770 is eTube. Different wiring and connectors.
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ms6073
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by ms6073

Kind of related - Di2 mix-and-match warning
To sumarize, while I have not yet installed this update on our bikes with full 9070, according to a Slowtwitch forum member, Shimano's firmware update released sometime mid July, renders systems with 6870/9070 shifters and 6770/6870 front/rear derailleurs useless whether it be 6780 front/6770 rear or 6770 front/6870 rear. Also, once updated, you cannot roll back the update so there is no going back unless you buy a new battery with the older firmware!
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

yumseyo
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 12:25 am
Location: San Francisco

by yumseyo

sooooo, if I bought a 7970 front and rear harness and a 7970 front derailleur I'd be set? I've seen the front harness that adjust the shifting for about 80.00 the rear harness for about 150.00, and need to find a front derailleur. I actually have one, but the cage that goes around the chain is broken off.. is that replaceable?

yumseyo
Posts: 115
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Location: San Francisco

by yumseyo

Well, I've decided to stay with the 7970, since I have the rear derailleur. I just picked up a FD cheap for 75.00. Now for the harnesses. I found a front and rear I am watching and hope to get those for under 200.00. Then a couple of cateye switches and I should be in business. Whoops, I forgot I need a battery..75.00? I guess under 400.00 is fair for a Dura Ace 7970 Di2 set up without shift levers? I plan to run a flat bar so I didn't need to spend the extra 250.00 on the drop levers...

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

To be 11 speed you have to have both the FD and the RD now (and 11sp cassette/chain/wheels). The rest can be the 67XX series.

Both of these sites have updated the requirements.

http://fitwerx.com/converting-shimano-u ... o-11-speed

and

http://carltonbale.com/shimano-di2-ever ... d-to-know/

Carrots
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:04 am

by Carrots

Interesting.

Given external battery mount and potentially the cable Junction A (forget the part number) is potentially carry over parts on bikes delivered with both 6870 and 9070.

And to think I just bought the PCI link to play with. Doh.

ProEvoSLTeamHighMod
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:13 am

by ProEvoSLTeamHighMod

@climber8 you mention an issue with a 68/90 group with the exception of front harness/junction being 67 series, but then later on mention rather a 6770 RD...
Clarify?

Several companies are shipping new 6870 bikes with the older 6770 style front harness (which afaik is a 67 series, and there is no plan to ever update that since the EW90 junction has been introduced...) and external battery... If any firmware update causes issue this is a big pain in the ass...

(As @Carrots mentioned)

by Weenie


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