Frame failure Carbon Road Bike

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Jaroslaw
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:15 am

by Jaroslaw

Rarely do I read a thread with such interest.
Even more so as I have bought a Storck (Rebel Nine) about 18 months ago and was planning to get Aernario.
Don't give up Tucker13 and keep all of us updated with your claim.
Good luck!

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Mario Jr.
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Location: Denmark
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by Mario Jr.

madcow wrote:While it contributes nothing to help resolve your issue, I will say that you're not alone. We dropped the Storck brand for this exact reason. We had an usually high percentage of warranty claims, and almost every single one of them was refused for one reason or another. These were claims that any other brand we carry would have replaced the frame, but Storck found a reason to deny almost all of them.

It's really frustrating when a company will not stand behind it's product.

As was already suggested, I'd get the cracked frame repaired, and then I'd begin replacing my bikes with ones that weren't Storck.


I can only echo this. We moved on for the very same reasons.

by Weenie


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Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Hi Mario Jnr

Disappointing to hear you experienced this too, will see how my call goes tomorrow and will update u all

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harmonix1234
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Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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by harmonix1234

'Not fit for purpose' worked for me too. Item was outside warranty period, but still should have had a life expectancy of more than two years (warranty was 12 months) so my item failed a year after the warranty expired. But if the consumer can argue fairly that an item should not fail within this time period, even if out of warranty then it must be replaced.
(A candle stick holder may have a 12 month warranty, but based on the items intended use, it shouldn't fail within 20 years, so even if it fails after 21 years, it's still required to be replaced because it 'was not fit for purpose').
My warranty was initially declined, but when I quoted the consumer rights act and the 'not fit for purpose' they did a complete 180 and not only warrantied my item, but upgraded me to the next model up. I also helped two other cyclists with this problem coaching them on how to affirm your rights and assert them. They too both got brand new and upgraded replacement warrantied items. They (Storck) actually cannot say no, it's against the law, and unfortunately they rely on the general populations lack of understanding of consumer law to get away with this and keep their pennies.
Also, when a company is established and starts to produce retail items, they must sign the Consumer Credit Code Act as part of the essential criteria to get the business legally operational. So, they have already legally sworn and signed that they will adhere to these policies and laws as a trader well before your frame was even conceived.
Don't bend over and take it. Let them know that you know your rights and, either they replace the frame now, or the consumer industry ombudsman will make them do it, either way it's going to happen, so they may as well save everyone the time and hassle and just do it now.

I did also advise the company that should they not meet their legal obligation as a manufacturer, I would be more than happy to write an open letter regarding the situation and their ethics on the net. Plus share it on their Facebook page as well as all of the largest cycling forums all over the world, and should anyone type 'Product name' into google my letter will show up all over their screens. Even if that only means several cyclists didn't buy their product, it would still cost them more than the replacement warranty of my one item. And that this was not a threat, just my right to exercise free speech regarding product reviews, and an honest recount of my experience on the net.

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mattyNor
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:18 pm

by mattyNor

I wish we had legal options like this in Canada, hats off to you guys. We went through a very similar issue in my shop but once we were told nothing could be done, I've never been more devastated for a customer :(

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Thank u Harmonix 1234, really appreciate your feedback , great advice and also reassuring , I am a lot happier knowing these facts now and feel that the manufacturer cannot Bully me into a flat NO !

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Hi Mattynor, thanks for your email, it seems u are not alone as a shop owner who has experienced this, I have had a number of Retailers from across Europe , USA and Canada now complaining regarding the same issue and companies inability or reluctance to stand over the warranty , such a shame ,

Some very important things I have learned from all of this is ........

1. Pick a good reputable and Strong Bike Shop Dealer who will support you with your Claim, when it is an obvious defect
2. Ask from the outset what the warranty period is ?
3 Ask the dealer what the manufacturer are like re warranty issues, very important, my dealer and others have stated this manufacture is very difficult re Warranty returns

As I stated earlier other members within my club have experienced similar issues and all were resolved with the intervention of their bike retailer without quibble or money exchanging hands

Then and only then when I have satisfied these questions will I look at , the design , style, performance etc , Spending too much money on these bikes individually 5k, 10k, 5k , for a manufacturer to say after 15 months sorry !

Thanks Guys

mattr
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Butcher wrote:Mercedes just had a court case about their balance shafts wearing out in their engines. I believe Mercedes won on the grounds that the warranty period ended and Mercedes cannot be expected to cover the repair outside of that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M272_engine
I've been vaguely following this through my work and as far as i can remember they lost in the US, where SOGA doesn't exist. I believe in Europe there is a goodwill repair up to 8(?) years.

This is not uncommon, unless it's covered by other legislation in the US (emissions, safety, airbags, seatbelts etc) you're up sh1t creek once the warranty expires. Unless there are (literally) something like 5% of all cars failing. Which for many manufacturers would wipe out a good chunk of the next couple of years profits!

jeffy
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

I am glad that my "not fit for purpose" post has been backed up by multiple sources. We are certainly protected well within the EU.

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luckypuncheur
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:26 pm
Location: Germany

by luckypuncheur

Tucker13, I'd recommend to immediately stop dealing with Storck and stick to S-Tec. Under german law (which applies here), the seller (!) has to provide a 24 months warranty and in case he's not able to resolve a warranty issue with the manufacturer (here: Storck), is obliged to refund the original purchase price. In fact it's S-Tecs problem, not yours. I'd also ask them to pay for the transport costs - it's just their legal obligation to cover theses costs.

BTW: I had a broken Storck frame with a cracked BB housing too and got a higher end replacement frame for an additional 1000 Euros after 2 months of waiting and discussing. The paint quality of said frame was so ridiculously poor that the shop agreed to offer me a replacement from a different manufacturer.

What I heard from another shop owner is that Storck has serious quality and warranty issues for many years now and is actually not doing well commercially. Which is no real surprise to me... :(
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.

Hawkwood
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:27 pm

by Hawkwood

mattr wrote:
Butcher wrote:Mercedes just had a court case about their balance shafts wearing out in their engines. I believe Mercedes won on the grounds that the warranty period ended and Mercedes cannot be expected to cover the repair outside of that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M272_engine
I've been vaguely following this through my work and as far as i can remember they lost in the US, where SOGA doesn't exist. I believe in Europe there is a goodwill repair up to 8(?) years.

This is not uncommon, unless it's covered by other legislation in the US (emissions, safety, airbags, seatbelts etc) you're up sh1t creek once the warranty expires. Unless there are (literally) something like 5% of all cars failing. Which for many manufacturers would wipe out a good chunk of the next couple of years profits!


My BMW 320D is around 13 years old. I recently received a letter from BMW informing me that there might be a problem with one of the air-bags, as a couple had failed on the same model, so could I take it to my local BMW dealership for a new one to be fitted free of charge. BMW flagged up a minor possible defect on a previous car of mine, the dealership carried out the work and valeted my car as well, all for free!

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

Recalls are different than defects. Enough defects can cause a recall, but one usually will not.

All those consumer laws that are in Europe do come at a cost. If you think you are getting a free candlestick or bike frame, think again.

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Hi Good Evening All,

So for an update, apologies I didn't get to post earlier but I was away on Business, i will let you decide whether the result was a positive or negative, I would welcome your thoughts ..............

I received a telephone call Friday last November 21st from Mr M.S., I was somewhat apprehensive prior to the call as his reputation is considerable within the industry and I am what can be best described as a Bike Fitness Fan ,
He spoke at length (for 55 mins) re Engineering processes and as you can imagine was very passionate about his product and Design, at times the discussion was robust as I outlined to him the displeasure of a lot of Bike Shop Retailers who had emailed me of their own experiences and stated to him that they experienced similar warranty issues, he defended the companies position vigorously and said that in fact the company had experienced very positive feedback and was rated in the top 10 amongst retailers , I raised the query regarding my First problem encountered in the Fascenario 0.7 Bottom Bracket , he defended this and said that most manufacturers use a similar system Press Fit and somewhat suggested that maintenance would be required on a bike over time and these areas would be picked up !! I disagreed with this !!! as a lot of individuals experienced similar problems to me with the Fascenario 0.7 Clearly when it comes to Engineering etc I am no match for Mr MS so I could only listen and accept his answer, albeit I did refer to dealerships in USA Canada, Denmark who have all had similar experiences and walked away from them ,

At times the conversation became heated again, whilst I acknowledged MS experience , reputation within the industry and thanked him for personally taking the time out of his schedule to call me to explain personally ( he stated that in 28 years he had only phoned 4 customers)I'm still not sure why he phoned me ? I did in an email refer to my displeasure and threatened to make a claim ! Against the company under the Companies Act Or perhaps he was protecting the Dealer ? As suggested in previous post who is liable ( The dealer to be fair did voice his total disgust to both me and Company over their behaviour)

when I referred to the Cracks in the Second frame The Aero 2 TT bike a 10k bike, I voiced my displeasure that I was really disappointed as cosmetically this is not acceptable, MS acknowledged this and said the first crack was a Paint Crack , it was due to a non monocoque design and the joins at the rear end,he stated that the Engineers put the frame on a Jig and the numbers reaffirmed that the integrity and suitability of frame was not compromised, He said that he personally inspected the frame and found a second crack !!!!!! this was under the rear wheel arch on the Down Tube, and in his opinion was caused by the Seatpost, naturally I was extremely annoyed to hear this and was adamant that I did not cause this !!!! I stated that I had no confidence what so ever and would not accept the frame back ! MS said in his experience the frame suffered damage due to the Seatpost , I disputed this and still cannot accept it , I asked why is it that the Company appear to fight every Warranty Claim ?

When I quoted friends of mine who encountered similar problems with Giant, Felt etc and that they were issued replacements for free, The answer I received was straight forward , he said that these Companies overheads were a lot cheaper and that their average frame manufacture cost was US 150 Dollars, his was more like Euro 700 a frameset and the materials and R and D for his framesets were in his opinion better , I therefore asked why would I therefore continue to support this Company with future purchases if this was the outcome , he didn't really answer the question, and stated that I had the use of the bike etc and depreciation should be taken into consideration, he referenced a number of personal experiences he had in relation to expensive Motor Cars he owned and that he too did not get satisfaction ...............

We discussed this issue for a number of minutes , over and back , eventually MS suggested the following

That the Company would repaint the frameset first crack and repair second crack and return to me , free
I refused this ............

He countered that offer by saying Ok I want you to be happy , we will offer you a new Aero 2 IS frameset. ( upgraded frameset) from my Aero 2 frameset , but was looking for a fee of Euro 700

I refused.....

Again we discussed over and back ............

He subsequently suggested the following , ,,,,,,,

Keep my Old Aero 2 frameset , they will include for free a fork, Seatpost, and new Headset, I use this as a Winter or Training Bike ( I repair the crack myself) he said the integrity of bike was fine according to engineers test results

And they will also ....

Upgrade me to a new Aero 2 IS frameset immediately for Euro 500 and his Team transfer across all components DI2 etc etc , he said the frameset costs him Euro 700, so he was now paying too !!

Or

Wait until Feb 2015 and get the new Aero 2 IS frameset which is Mechanical or DI 2 compatible for Euro 1000

I considered this and whilst initially I thought why should I have to spend more money AGAIN !! I felt that I could have Dug my Heels in, but in reality this may not have got me anywhere , and in the end I would have been emailing over and back etc etc ,and all the time without my bike

In the end I felt , I had Succeeded in getting a winter bike , plus an upgraded frameset worth more than the original frameset plus now an extended warranty for Euro 500 plus sales Tax

I agreed to this , perhaps you might let me know your thoughts , I really do appreciate each and ever post received , this forum is a great place to discuss these issues and certainly gave me confidence knowing some of the facts outlined by you

I hope to receive the new frameset in the coming weeks and to have better luck with this one, hopefully it will be a case of " Third time lucky" :beerchug:

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

In summary MS came across as a likeable person, who I might add is a Great Salesperson, obviously supremely knowledgeable in his subject matter , but one who keeps a very tight grip on the purse strings too

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

I think he's lost more goodwill than he's gained from this experience. Penny saved, pound foolish.
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