Frame failure Carbon Road Bike

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jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

Regarding EU Law the key phrase is "not fit for purpose" have a google around about consumer rights and that phrase. The phrases "having received advice", "according to EU consumer law" and "not fit for purpose" has got me a replacement high price item before.


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wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Butcher wrote:If you chose not to ride the bike, that is not the company's fault.

Whatever you got was a goodwill gesture. They did not have to do anything. Funny how when people get something that they are not suppose to get, they are unhappy with it. Kind of like winning the lottery and complaining that you did not get enough.


That's bollocks. It's not a disposable item, it's a £3.5k frame. Giving it a 2 year warranty does not mean it's OK to produce it with a defect that means it will only last 2.1 years. I would argue that since it's an admitted error in the design of the frame the bike is simply not fit for purpose and should be replaced regardless of warranty period. It is their fault that they screwed up.

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Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Thanks Guys Wingguy and Jeffy

That is good advice , I even have the dealer in Germany suggesting I go to Law over this ! , the Bummer is, I am scheduled to go to Lanzarote for a few weeks Dec 1st and was planning to bring the Aero 2 TT bike with me , due to the winds etc , disappointing to say the least, I have put it up to Storck to replace under warranty and told them of my plans if they don't deliver

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Wingguy, FYI this is the second frame for me that he gone now ,Marist was the
Fascenario 0.7
Now it's the
Aero 2 TT Bike

Hawkwood
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:27 pm

by Hawkwood

jeffy wrote:Regarding EU Law the key phrase is "not fit for purpose" have a google around about consumer rights and that phrase. The phrases "having received advice", "according to EU consumer law" and "not fit for purpose" has got me a replacement high price item before.


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Agreed. I was driving to a conference a couple of years ago with a colleague who is a law lecturer and judge. She told me her washing machine had recently packed in, the service engineer informed her that it had a faulty design, but that it was out of warranty. The washing machine was an expensive one, from a well-known manufacturer, it had been sold to her by a reputable UK retailer. As we drove she phoned the customer services department of the retailer. The member of staff went through the old arguments, out of warranty etc etc. My judge friend quoted `not fit for purpose' and informed the person that she was quite happy to take them to court, and that their company would lose. Result, a new washing machine free of charge. A 3.5k frame that lasts just two years, that's outrageous.

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Thanks Hawkwood for your advice , it's great to be able to talk in this forum about these issues, and seek your views, I forwarded an email last night quoting " not fit for purpose" and stated I was prepared to go all the way, I received an email this morning asking for my Tel Nr as they want the head of the Company to call me , I will let u know the outcome , thanks again for all your comments advice and assistance, Much appreciated

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Rick
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

Just trying to be dispassionately objective about this:
I agree with those who say that you really don't have a right to expect any more from the company. You bought a frame with a 2-year warranty, and that is the extent. Apparently you got the two years.

"Not fit for the purpose" does not really apply here, because the "purpose" (to race for at least two years) has already been satisfied. All sports equipment has a limited time of use, and high-tech, perhaps extra light sports equipment would have an even more limited expected time of use. (In this case, two years.)

So I don't think you have a credible legal case or a reason to think the company is cheating you. (But I am not a lawyer.)

Having said all that, it is also true that most current-technology frames do last for much more than two years and I am a little surprised that the company would not replace the frame just for good will and to avoid negative reputation. But remember that although you may claim it was not crashed, etc, they don't really know for sure exactly what you have been doing to the frame.

This is all why there is "supply and demand", and reputable companies that have established a long reputations want to charge more for their products. Consumers really do assume some risk when buying more obscure companies and cheaper products.

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Rick wrote:Just trying to be dispassionately objective about this:
I agree with those who say that you really don't have a right to expect any more from the company. You bought a frame with a 2-year warranty, and that is the extent. Apparently you got the two years.

"Not fit for the purpose" does not really apply here, because the "purpose" (to race for at least two years) has already been satisfied.


No, that doesn't work. Regardless of warranty period, its purpose is not to only last two years. Otherwise, why would they have fixed the admitted error in the design? Also, bear in mind that when the corrosion was discovered after 2 years and 3 months it was already too far advanced to fix. It stands to reason that the corrosion started well within the warranty period.

At the end of the day, it is simply not good enough, and. I certainly disagree with anyone who says he should be 'happy' that they've done anything at all. Just because a company's not actually shitting on you doesn't mean you should say 'thank you sir, can I have some more?' when they're merely pissing on you instead.

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Rick
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

Giving it a 2 year warranty does not mean it's OK to produce it with a defect that means it will only last 2.1 years. .

Actually, it sort of does.
Nothing lasts forever, and so the warranty period is an indicator of the relative risks to the company and the consumer. After 2 years of use, a failure of the frame is not necessarily a "defect" but is "deterioration". All products deteriorate, and that is why all products are not guaranteed "for life".

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Rick
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

wingguy wrote: I certainly disagree with anyone who says he should be 'happy' that they've done anything at all. Just because a company's not actually shitting on you doesn't mean you should say 'thank you sir, can I have some more?' when they're merely pissing on you instead.


Oh, don't get me wrong. He should be pissed and I would be pissed.
I am just pointing out that the frame manufacturer has no real responsibility to do anything.
He should complain and tell all his friends what a crappy company it is. Then future potential customers will be able to weight the price/warrany/customer reviews, etc when making their future purchase decisions. Bad reputation is one of the main reasons that companies of any type go out of business.

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

All the warranty is indicating is that they will take care of issues in the time period allowed. Normally if there was an issue, it would show up within the warranty time period. I still do not get that when the contract ends, the consumer expects more. Business's cannot afford to charge for a 2 year warranty but hand out a life time warranty if you whine about it on the net.

As a former hang glider pilot, I inspected my craft every time I took off. Every season, I would take the sail off and inspect the frame thoroughly. Back then, there was a lot of aluminum. Corrosion with 7075 aluminum was something you looked for.

I would think a bike would have the same type of inspection. Every year, I disassemble my bike and inspect things I normally would not before I go out on a ride. A proper inspection may have found the corrosion within the warranty period. Certainly I would have inspected the frame just before the end of warranty.

Mercedes just had a court case about their balance shafts wearing out in their engines. I believe Mercedes won on the grounds that the warranty period ended and Mercedes cannot be expected to cover the repair outside of that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M272_engine
Last edited by Butcher on Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Svetty
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

To be fair to Storck, if all their testing has found is two paint cracks and the frame is otherwise structurally sound then they are under no obligation. Equally if the cracks are in the tubing - and they properly repair them as offered - then again, they have no further obligation. You have what you originally purchased: a functional frame that you have had the use of for 2 yrs from purchase with warranty, and unspecified further use out of warranty.

If they fail to repair it then you would have grounds for further action under EU consumer law IMO (but I'm no lawyer).

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Thanks Guys for the emails, just to be Clear
The first problem I encountered was with the Fascenario 0.7 and oxidation at the Bottom Bracket, a known fault with this bike , I paid the Euro 550 to upgrade to the Aernario and moved on

However
The Second problem NOW is my Aero 2 TT Bike , it is only 16 mths and is a 10 k Bike, this now has 2 Cracks in frame ,

Just so u are clear

Tucker13
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:13 am

by Tucker13

Another point I would like to make, having purchased and Bought into the Brand, I recommended to a lot of my friends to purchase too, a number did and now are waiting anxiously the outcome with this development , as other manufacturers have delivered where problems of a similar nature have occurred and that is from only within my cyclin club,
So I agree entirely with the comment from Rick that Companies Survive in Business based on reputation , let's see how I get on tomorrow after the phone call, I will update you after, best Rgds

by Weenie


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jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

Tucker13.

If you can (if not ask a mod) - change the title of this thread to include Storck / poor warranty / bad customer service - along with frame crank / failure. Particularly having the brand name in the title of the thread might "help" resolve the issue.

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